March 16, 2026

Jamie Ellis: Improving Honey Bee Health (376)

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Dr. Jamie Ellis joins Beekeeping Today Podcast to discuss improving honey bee health, colony management strategies, and how beekeepers can strengthen their colonies heading into spring.

Jamie shares insights from his work in research, extension education, and beekeeper outreach, helping bridge the gap between academic science and real-world beekeeping practices. The conversation explores how beekeepers can make better management decisions by understanding colony biology, seasonal dynamics, and the pressures that modern honey bee colonies face.

Jeff, Becky, and Jamie discuss the importance of monitoring colonies closely as winter transitions into spring. This includes evaluating colony strength, assessing food reserves, and preparing for rapid brood expansion that often accompanies early nectar flows. Jamie emphasizes that successful beekeeping often comes down to careful observation and timely intervention rather than rigid adherence to calendar-based management.

The conversation also touches on common misconceptions that beekeepers encounter when managing colonies and the importance of staying adaptable in response to changing environmental conditions, pests, and disease pressures.

Jamie’s ability to translate complex research into practical guidance makes this episode particularly valuable for beekeepers at all experience levels. Whether managing a few backyard colonies or operating a larger apiary, listeners will find useful reminders about the fundamentals of good colony management and the importance of staying curious about the biology and behavior of honey bees.

Websites from the episode and others we recommend:

 

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We hope you enjoy this podcast and welcome your questions and comments in the show notes of this episode or: questions@beekeepingtodaypodcast.com

Thank you for listening! 

Podcast music: Be Strong by Young Presidents; Epilogue by Musicalman; Faraday by BeGun; Walking in Paris by Studio Le Bus; A Fresh New Start by Pete Morse; Wedding Day by Boomer; Christmas Avenue by Immersive Music; Red Jack Blues by Daniel Hart; Bolero de la Fontero  by Rimsky Music; Perfect Sky by Graceful Movement; Original guitar background instrumental by Jeff Ott.

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WEBVTT

00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:06.320
Hi, I'm Susan from Fayeville, Arkansas, and I'm at the North American Honey Bee Expo.

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Welcome to Beekeeping today.

00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:15.840
Welcome to Beekeeping Today Podcast presented by Better Bee, your source for beekeeping news, information, and entertainment.

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I'm Jeff Ott.

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And I'm Becky Masterman.

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Today's episode is brought to you by the Bee Nutrition Superheroes at Global Paddy.

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Picture this: strong colonies, booming brood, and honey flowing like a sweet river.

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com and give your bees the nutrition they deserve.

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Quick shout out to BetterBee and all of our sponsors whose support allows us to bring you this podcast each week without resorting to a fee-based subscription.

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All of our content on the website.

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beekeepingtoday.

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com.

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Thank you, Susan from Fayetteville

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For that fantastic opening from the North American Honeybee Expo.

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Arkansas, one of my very favorite beekeeper states ever.

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How's that?

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Nice beekeepers in Arkansas though.

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So fantastic.

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Thank you, Susan.

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Thanks for stopping by the booth.

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Becky, it's middle of March.

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And we're looking at the bees that survived the year and survived the winter and now they're coming in and we're looking at the empty boxes, or maybe you aren't, but I'm looking at some empty boxes

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that used to have bees in 'em last September.

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And you know, that leads to these two questions we've just recently received

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timely enough for the Hive IQ tool that we have the promotion going with our friends at Hive IQ.

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Basically, without reading both the

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these questions, one from Tom and one from Jessica.

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They're looking for clarification on what we had stated in an episode or two ago about the use of old B equipment.

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I will say that I recommend to beekeepers that uh and it's based upon I know what University of Minnesota does too, is you start culling your

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frames in the fall by placing them in the bottom boxes so that in the spring, even if they they survive the the winter, they're not occupying the frames

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So what I do in my own operation is that if I know if I've got entombed pollen, if I have a frame or frames that are just too old, I put an X on them and then those are the first ones that I can pull out.

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Either obviously if there's a dead out or even if the bees make it through the winter, they're usually empty if they're in the bottom box.

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And then when I pull out

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frames, I'm actually pulling out the foundation and I am scraping and cleaning the frames and attempting to sterilize them.

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with bleach and reusing them so getting new foundation for them.

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As Jessica mentioned, woodenware is expensive and if we can make it safe and get use out of it, that's great.

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So do you reuse the plastic foundation and clean that off and rewax that?

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That's a level too high for me.

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And I know some people will have have mentioned to us that they're gonna they power wash it off and then they will go ahead and and paint the foundation on.

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I don't.

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And honestly, I I worry

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about one, all the time that would take me.

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Two, the brood nest wax has a lot of contaminants in it.

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It's got pesticides in it.

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It's got pathogens in it.

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And so I'm just I'm okay throwing that away and just

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Making a clean break instead of having to do the power washing and then do sterilization of that foundation and then and then rewax it

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But if I do have boxes that I'm painting, I'll go ahead and I'll torch them just to to be clean.

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I'll torch the inside of those boxes.

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Even if they're my own boxes.

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it's not a bad protocol to try to sterilize the boxes.

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And I think it's something that we don't do enough as beekeepers.

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And beekeepers or scientists like Megan Milbreth who's looking at EFB

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And other scientists are are I think when they're talking about viruses and how long virus the viruses can stay on comb and equipment, I think the the big answer is that we don't know.

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And so if we don't know

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I think right now beekeepers are are really taking it upon themselves to figure out what the protocols are to make sure that their equipment stays as clean as possible.

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I'm just like 99% of all the other big I probably shouldn't say that many, but no.

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But I I'll often just blindly, as long as it's my equipment, I'll just reuse it.

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And I don't really care about it.

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I mean I think about it, but I say, I'm in a hurry, I'm just gonna reuse this box one more time.

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The time I do torch the inside with a propane torch would be if I'm taking that box out of rotation

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And repainting it and sanding it down and cleaning it all up.

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Then I'll take a torch and just get it good.

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Not to catch it on fire, but just pass it over the inside of the box.

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Boil some of that wax and propolis.

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Even though we want the propolis envelope, that's the time to take care of it and clean it up really nice.

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It's interesting because I think that there are some pretty interesting data about taking dead out equipment.

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and putting it on colonies right away versus putting them in storage and then putting them in colonies and they find, I think

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I don't know if the metric was higher colony survival, sorry to quote part of a paper, but they found that it was actually better for the bees

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if that dead out equipment went straight back onto the bees instead of into storage and then onto the bees.

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And as we're going to be able to do that.

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There you go.

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So you're doing the right thing, so so keep it up.

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And honestly, not honestly with my my winter dead outs, I

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do my best to just put that put it back onto colonies.

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If I don't see the X's on the comb, I will put it back onto my colonies and I will build up those those populations for spring divides.

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So

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So but but I love that beekeepers are thinking about it and asking about it.

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Of course, I did just see a post of somebody who wanted found a bunch of old equipment and was gonna just

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get the bees right on the old, old comb, twenty year old comb that they didn't know a lot about.

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And, you know, the truth is that that could have such a devastating consequence for not just your apiary, but your neighbor's apiary if they're if

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AFB scales can live that long and you don't know why the colonies died.

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And so I do recommend pretty strongly that if you are a new beekeeper to go ahead and get

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brand new comb and and to start fresh there because it's hard enough to keep the bees alive, really hard to start identifying pathogens, and you don't want to have to be that new beekeeper who finds AFB in their colonies, 'cause that's really heartbreaking, right?

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You probably have in the university, but destroying a colony and torching all the equipment because of American pallet root is very sad and uh it makes for a very long day.

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And you mentioned the stress of the bees already due to the Vroa associated diseases.

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Why compound that stress even more by putting them on old equipment that may also have pathogens?

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may also lead to any problems that if a colony gets a little weakened will just multiply itself.

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So

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You might have to do some digging as far as the best way to to clean up boxes, but I get the economics of it and and I know you do too and and it

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It certainly can be done and so I'm I'm I don't think we're we're passing any judgment on that, cleaning up boxes, but just be really careful with that comb.

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And there are

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Pretty good data that show that bees do a little bit better on newer comb and so so that's that's a thing and even though

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Beekeepers like old comb, but um sometimes the bees maybe prefer the new stuff.

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Well, and that's why it's a it's a good reason to get yourself into a

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a mindset of constantly swapping in and out of frames uh so that you're constantly bringing in new fresh foundation f for the bees to draw comb in the spring and

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Then there's some thought that constantly producing wax is is a healthy thing, healthy exercise for the bees.

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Yeah, yeah, where we where we see that we know there's a lot of energy and nutrition that goes into it, but like you just said, there's

00:09:05.060 --> 00:09:07.860
There's some benefit for the bees, definitely.

00:09:07.860 --> 00:09:09.220
So very good.

00:09:09.220 --> 00:09:12.100
I that's the biosecurity talk I wanted to have today.

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So thank you, listeners.

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I appreciate that.

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Today's the year of biosecurity.

00:09:18.780 --> 00:09:20.940
Thank you, Jessica and Tom.

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Stand by and I'll be uh sending you a hive tool soon.

00:09:24.820 --> 00:09:29.460
Everybody, today's guest is a return guest from several years ago, Dr.

00:09:29.460 --> 00:09:31.860
Jamie Ellis from the University of Florida.

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We look forward to having him on the show today to give us an update on everything he's been doing.

00:09:36.980 --> 00:09:38.340
Which is a lot

00:09:38.560 --> 00:09:42.880
Coming right up after these words from our sponsors.

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This episode of Beekeeping Today podcast is brought to you in part by Apis Tactical, a beekeeping brand focused on innovation.

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00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:24.400
Hey everybody, welcome back.

00:11:24.400 --> 00:11:28.880
Sitting around the great big virtual beekeeping today podcast table.

00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.040
Sitting down in Gainesville, Florida, we have Dr.

00:11:31.040 --> 00:11:32.240
Jamie Ellis.

00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:34.800
Jamie, welcome to the Beekeeping Today podcast.

00:11:34.800 --> 00:11:35.840
Welcome back.

00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:37.680
Hey man, thank you for having me.

00:11:37.680 --> 00:11:42.400
I obviously love podcasts, so it's really exciting to be able to be on your podcast.

00:11:42.660 --> 00:11:46.660
I didn't think you'd start plugging your podcast so quickly, Jamie, but go ahead.

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Go ahead.

00:11:47.460 --> 00:11:57.060
I I will I'll tell you, Jeff and I have spent a lot of time at the North American Honey Bee Expo and the the Midwest Honey Bee Expo this year and and people come up and they literally say

00:11:57.160 --> 00:12:01.080
We like your podcast and we like two bees in a podcast.

00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:03.480
So we hear about you all the time.

00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:04.040
Well good.

00:12:04.040 --> 00:12:04.520
That's good.

00:12:04.520 --> 00:12:07.720
Yeah, we do we do have a podcast here like you guys and we we love it.

00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:11.160
It's a great way to communicate information and it is called two bees in a podcast.

00:12:11.160 --> 00:12:11.800
And I'm sure

00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:16.080
You guys know it's a fun thing to do to just talk about bees.

00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.080
And it seems like people benefit, right?

00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:19.440
Just like what you said, Becky.

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When we travel, we hear about it.

00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:24.480
And so I know that people are benefiting having these out there.

00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:37.200
Well, it also I think just to dive right in it, we're gonna let you introduce yourself because we do have some new beekeepers listening, but I think you've probably noticed just as we have that beekeepers are reading scientific papers right now.

00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:38.000
They have

00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:43.920
really great ways to search for information, science based information on the internet.

00:12:43.920 --> 00:12:46.960
And there's just a new class of beekeepers where

00:12:47.160 --> 00:12:56.120
They want to hear the scientists talk as well as the the commercial beekeepers and as as well as people who are are coming up with great gear for beekeepers.

00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:57.160
So so it's

00:12:57.259 --> 00:13:05.180
It's kind of like a new era of beekeepers, the informed beekeeper era, where they're smart out there, so we have to work hard to keep 'em informed.

00:13:05.180 --> 00:13:10.300
Well the truth is is is information has never been easier to get

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And and folks can get it, you know, over podcasts verbally, like what we're doing here, but through through videos, through pictures.

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It's just absolutely everywhere.

00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:21.720
And so making sure that information is high quality is very important.

00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:23.240
And very important.

00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:27.720
Well, yeah, Jamie, please tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got started in bees.

00:13:27.800 --> 00:13:29.320
Yeah, happy to do that.

00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:31.560
So again, my name is Jamie Ellis.

00:13:31.560 --> 00:13:33.000
I do work for the University of Florida.

00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:36.120
I specifically work in the entomology and immatology department, but my interest in bees

00:13:37.040 --> 00:13:38.640
started well before starting here.

00:13:38.640 --> 00:13:42.160
I actually got interested when I was very young, around eight or so.

00:13:42.160 --> 00:13:47.280
And BKP's not in my family, so it took a few years for me to convince my parents that I wanted B.

00:13:47.280 --> 00:13:49.920
So I finally got they finally got me a colony

00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:53.580
when I was around twelve years old and that was not yesterday.

00:13:53.580 --> 00:13:57.740
That was that was oh oh oh you know, three and a half decades ago

00:13:57.780 --> 00:13:58.660
A little bit more actually.

00:13:58.660 --> 00:14:02.820
And so I I started keeping bees when I was young and I loved it, just absolutely loved it.

00:14:02.820 --> 00:14:10.340
And I'm from a rural area and so I participated a lot in 4 H and in high school and middle school I did a lot of science fair projects.

00:14:10.340 --> 00:14:10.980
And so

00:14:10.900 --> 00:14:15.860
Since I was a beekeeper, my 4-H and high school science fair projects were all bee themed.

00:14:15.860 --> 00:14:17.780
And so I did a lot of honey bee-related stuff.

00:14:17.780 --> 00:14:19.300
And in through that process

00:14:19.459 --> 00:14:22.660
I just fell in love with science and I went University of Georgia.

00:14:22.660 --> 00:14:28.740
I did my undergrad there and all four years that I was at the University of Georgia, I worked in the laboratory of Keith Delaplane, who

00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:32.060
Of course, is a noted B scientist and B extension specialist.

00:14:32.060 --> 00:14:37.340
And I learned a lot about B research and conducting business in a B laboratory.

00:14:37.160 --> 00:14:38.280
while I was there and Dr.

00:14:38.280 --> 00:14:42.200
Delaplane once said to me, He's like, Jamie, it's clear you like science, it's clear you like bees.

00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:43.480
Why don't you just put the two together?

00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:45.800
And it's like I just needed someone to tell me that.

00:14:45.860 --> 00:14:46.660
And I did.

00:14:46.660 --> 00:14:52.420
So then from there I went overseas to South Africa to uh Rhodes University where I did my PhD.

00:14:52.420 --> 00:14:55.540
And then I came back to the University of Georgia to do a postdoc.

00:14:55.540 --> 00:15:00.580
And then in 2006, I was hired by the University of Florida, which is where I've been ever since.

00:15:00.580 --> 00:15:02.019
Almost 20 years.

00:15:02.019 --> 00:15:03.459
So it's been a while here

00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:13.760
And I was I was looking at your website, the University of Florida website, and and I saw the time between you got your your actual undergraduate and PhD degrees

00:15:13.959 --> 00:15:16.040
That's not enough time to do that, Jamie.

00:15:16.040 --> 00:15:19.880
So do you Do you want to explain just what happened?

00:15:19.880 --> 00:15:22.440
Oh I'm Yeah, okay.

00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:22.760
So

00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:25.480
So I don't have a master's degree, first of all.

00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:31.480
So so starting there, it was less common at the time to kind of skip your master's degree, but but

00:15:31.900 --> 00:15:33.500
It's somewhat common now.

00:15:33.500 --> 00:15:36.940
And and the way that I was able to do that was really a couple fold.

00:15:36.940 --> 00:15:40.220
So first of all, I had a lot of experience with bees.

00:15:39.959 --> 00:15:46.440
And a lot of folks who are getting into honeybees or any type of research, they have to learn their organism or their system.

00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:49.720
And so the master's degree allows them to do that.

00:15:49.560 --> 00:15:55.960
But I but I knew a lot about honey bees because by the time I rolled around to grad school, I don't know, I'd been keeping bees for ten years.

00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:57.800
And so I had that experience.

00:15:57.800 --> 00:15:58.840
Secondly,

00:15:58.660 --> 00:16:02.020
the master's degree is supposed to introduce you to research.

00:16:02.020 --> 00:16:04.820
And as an undergraduate, I had done research while in Dr.

00:16:04.820 --> 00:16:05.860
Delpane's lab.

00:16:05.860 --> 00:16:11.460
And I also did, of course, a lot of science fear I alluded to earlier while I was in high school and and even middle school

00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:19.520
So I I had already published a few refereed manuscripts as an undergraduate, you know, two or three at the time, which is about what master's students publish.

00:16:19.520 --> 00:16:20.880
So when I went overseas,

00:16:20.860 --> 00:16:23.260
to do my PhD at Rhodes University.

00:16:23.260 --> 00:16:28.860
I did actually enter as a master's student, but after one year converted to a PhD student.

00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:34.780
And so I finished all of my research and submitted my dissertation within two years and ten months.

00:16:34.640 --> 00:16:40.320
I graduated shortly thereafter and that's kind of how I got to uh have such a short time.

00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:42.880
I'd already come in preloaded with a lot of experience.

00:16:42.880 --> 00:16:44.640
Now I have had to learn a lot since.

00:16:44.640 --> 00:16:49.360
I'm not saying I was ready, but but I that's how I was able to do it.

00:16:48.580 --> 00:16:49.620
That's impressive.

00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:50.820
That's really good.

00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:56.900
You've been at the University of Florida since you really started your professional career as an entomologist.

00:16:56.900 --> 00:16:58.820
What has been your focus?

00:16:58.820 --> 00:17:01.780
We talked earlier before we start your research interest

00:17:01.839 --> 00:17:05.199
What have been your main main goals, your main thrust of your program?

00:17:05.520 --> 00:17:07.760
Yeah, it's funny you say, you know, the main goals.

00:17:07.760 --> 00:17:15.199
One of the things that I always, always, always talk about is that be people kind of are unique

00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:17.120
in entomology circles.

00:17:17.120 --> 00:17:23.839
Most of our colleagues are a specialist of a science discipline, and they will use that science discipline on a variety of

00:17:24.439 --> 00:17:28.919
insects, so they're physiologists, they're microbiologists, they're toxicologists, etc.

00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:36.679
But honeybee folks, like myself, tend to be organism specialists and use a variety of sciences on our organisms.

00:17:36.679 --> 00:17:37.000
So

00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:43.160
You know, today I might be an ecologist, tomorrow I might be a behaviorist, the following day I might be a toxicologist.

00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:47.400
So lots of things interest me in the honeybee research perspective.

00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:48.920
If I had to categorize

00:17:49.340 --> 00:17:54.140
All that we do kind of put it in one or two large umbrellas.

00:17:54.140 --> 00:17:55.580
I usually put it in two.

00:17:55.580 --> 00:17:58.620
The first of those would be Honey Bee Husbandry.

00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:04.360
So that would be all the research that my team and I, my colleagues and I conduct to make bees healthy.

00:18:04.360 --> 00:18:10.279
So that would be disease and pest control, that would be nutrition, that would be toxicology, all the management-related issues.

00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:11.480
And kind of the second

00:18:11.820 --> 00:18:17.020
broad category that my team and I undertake would be wild honeybee ecology.

00:18:17.020 --> 00:18:20.060
Now that's a growing area in in my lab.

00:18:20.060 --> 00:18:22.460
It's not like we spend 50-50, 50%

00:18:23.040 --> 00:18:25.360
on the first area and fifty percent on the second.

00:18:25.360 --> 00:18:30.320
I would say we probably spend ten or twenty percent of our time on wild honey bee ecology and it's and it's growing.

00:18:30.320 --> 00:18:32.880
I'm going I'm getting more students, et cetera, interested.

00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:36.560
So basically managed honey bees and wild honeybees and within within the

00:18:36.840 --> 00:18:40.200
Both of those things, we've we've done a lot of different things.

00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:49.960
But that's part of what makes beek research so cool is that we're able to dabble in so many different fields of science and satisfy so many itches, so to speak.

00:18:49.860 --> 00:18:52.500
Well you mentioned the wild honey bee studies.

00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:58.740
What would be the number one, number two area that your students are researching or finding interest in

00:18:58.940 --> 00:19:00.860
That's really straightforward and simple.

00:19:00.860 --> 00:19:06.539
We are trying to understand the importance of honeybees in natural

00:19:06.740 --> 00:19:07.940
ecosystems.

00:19:07.940 --> 00:19:10.900
This may surprise you, but it will also not surprise you.

00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:15.220
Most of what we know about honeybees comes from honeybees kept in white boxes.

00:19:15.500 --> 00:19:15.980
Right?

00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:21.659
We know so little about this creature in the areas where it's native.

00:19:21.659 --> 00:19:26.860
And we all make statements like honeybees are important for agriculture, they're important for ecosystem health.

00:19:26.560 --> 00:19:30.160
Well, we've got tons of information on honeybees and agriculture.

00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:34.800
We've got significantly less information on honeybees and ecosystem health.

00:19:34.800 --> 00:19:39.920
So we are trying to understand what honeybees do in natural ecosystems.

00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:41.360
And to do that.

00:19:41.060 --> 00:19:47.540
We've really had to start with some very elementary projects like where do honey bees nest, why do they nest where they nest?

00:19:47.540 --> 00:19:50.260
What's their nest site selection process going?

00:19:50.260 --> 00:19:54.580
When it's all kind kind of toward a goal, this kind of big vision of

00:19:54.720 --> 00:20:01.600
Someday having a better grasp of what they're doing where they are native in their wild ecosystems.

00:20:01.840 --> 00:20:06.320
So I'll play a devil's advocate just for fun for your students' sake.

00:20:06.679 --> 00:20:11.639
Someone listening to this show may say, well, honey bees aren't native to North America.

00:20:11.639 --> 00:20:14.360
How can you study them in their native environment if you're

00:20:14.560 --> 00:20:16.240
studying them in your backyard.

00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:17.760
Is that a valid argument?

00:20:17.760 --> 00:20:20.320
Oh, that's an easy thing to to contradict.

00:20:20.320 --> 00:20:22.240
We don't study them in North America.

00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:24.800
We go to where they we go to where they are native.

00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:33.659
So we have active research program in South Africa to look at some of the um wild populations of African honey bees, and we've had some research

00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:37.020
even in Thailand where other species of apist are native.

00:20:37.020 --> 00:20:46.540
So we a hundred percent don't do our wild honeybee ecology in areas where they are introduced, but instead do it exclusively in areas where they are native.

00:20:45.940 --> 00:20:47.059
And so that's how we address it.

00:20:47.299 --> 00:20:48.179
That's a great answer.

00:20:48.179 --> 00:20:49.139
I like it.

00:20:49.620 --> 00:20:52.260
Are you ever tempted to take a queen back home?

00:20:52.340 --> 00:20:53.139
Never.

00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:53.779
Never.

00:20:53.779 --> 00:21:00.340
I tell you, I I you know, it's the the managed side of me is so focused on you know protection.

00:21:00.860 --> 00:21:01.659
Keeping bees safe.

00:21:01.659 --> 00:21:03.179
So I I it's I'm never tempted.

00:21:03.179 --> 00:21:03.980
I'm never tempted.

00:21:03.980 --> 00:21:06.940
I'm I'm totally fine leaving them where they are.

00:21:07.340 --> 00:21:11.820
Okay, we're gonna talk about this for just a little little bit longer and then we can go to the the husband.

00:21:11.360 --> 00:21:15.679
husbandry side, but I think I saw a paper that you co-authored.

00:21:15.679 --> 00:21:21.200
It was maybe a student, but it was about you finding honeybee nesting in the ground.

00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:23.120
Please tell me all about that in like two minutes.

00:21:23.360 --> 00:21:24.400
Yeah, I'd be happy to.

00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.440
So I've got I've got a wonderful PhD student who's a student right now.

00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:28.640
She's gonna graduate later this year.

00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:34.000
Her name is Kaylin Cleckner, and she's one of the individuals who's done a lot of this work in South Africa.

00:21:33.660 --> 00:21:36.460
In fact, she's a student doing this this work there now.

00:21:36.460 --> 00:21:38.220
So she's finished her time in South Africa.

00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:39.260
She's processing data.

00:21:39.260 --> 00:21:44.700
One of the things that she was looking at was where are honey bees nesting in the research area?

00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:46.380
And so she would have to

00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:54.900
Find wild colonies, and she did that by putting out feeding stations and following these bee lines to these nests.

00:21:54.640 --> 00:22:02.000
And she did this thoroughly in sixteen square kilometers of area and found, you know, over a hundred hundred wild colonies

00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.800
And then she asked questions like, where are they?

00:22:04.800 --> 00:22:07.280
Are they in trees or in they in the gr are they in the ground?

00:22:07.280 --> 00:22:15.520
And we just have a paper now in press the where where she talked about one of their nesting preferences in the area where we're studying

00:22:15.540 --> 00:22:17.380
There's a high density of them in the ground.

00:22:17.380 --> 00:22:18.980
They're just nesting in holes in the ground.

00:22:18.980 --> 00:22:25.140
And these would often be burrows that small or medium-sized mammals created in the soil.

00:22:25.060 --> 00:22:28.260
And then once they stop using the burrows, bees will move in.

00:22:28.260 --> 00:22:29.780
And and this may be a preference.

00:22:29.780 --> 00:22:33.140
It also could be just dictated by the lack of trees in some of these areas.

00:22:33.140 --> 00:22:39.060
So it's a really neat finding because we think we always talk about apus mellifera as a tree nesting species, but

00:22:38.779 --> 00:22:42.380
Really they're just a cavity nesting species and looking for cavities that are available.

00:22:42.860 --> 00:22:49.899
That kind of accounts for all the bees that are in the sidings of houses and in flower pots and the w

00:22:50.260 --> 00:22:51.620
Backyard Weber Grill.

00:22:51.860 --> 00:22:53.620
Well Jeff, let me expand that just a little bit.

00:22:53.620 --> 00:23:05.059
Here in southern Florida, so so Gainesville where University of Florida is is in northern Florida, but in southern Florida, where African derived honeybees are present, so you know, hybrids of apus molefra scutilata.

00:23:04.540 --> 00:23:06.380
They routinely nest in the ground.

00:23:06.380 --> 00:23:12.780
In fact, one of the first areas where folks find African bees nesting once they move into an area is water meter boxes

00:23:12.760 --> 00:23:21.240
Because there are cavities in the ground with a little opening and we see that and it's funny because it's just kind of mimicking or duplicating what we see in their native range in Africa.

00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:24.440
That opens up a lot of a lot of possibilities then.

00:23:24.760 --> 00:23:27.240
Yeah, I love studying honey bees, so it's you know

00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:32.240
It's real easy to think about things that people haven't yet really thought heavily about.

00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:36.159
And especially with wild honeybees, basically everything's on the table right now.

00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:45.960
if you're nesting underground then that whole propolis envelope is got to be different and I know that differs between subspecies, but

00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:51.220
they have to be doing something to line the nest.

00:23:51.299 --> 00:23:56.179
So for sure, I mean, we see evidence that they're still using propolis in the ground, but think

00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:58.640
Think about all the spinoff projects.

00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:06.160
There's a huge focus right now on nest temperature regulation, and and almost all the models start with tree cavities, right?

00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:09.120
The walls of the trees are this and that and the other.

00:24:08.800 --> 00:24:13.840
But if you you know, and and people are making these statements, well, we need to insulate colonies, and this is fascinating science.

00:24:13.840 --> 00:24:15.440
Well, what about bees nesting in the ground?

00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:22.880
I mean, if they're three feet into the ground, they're insulated by the entire earth below them, and three feet of earth

00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:23.380
Above them.

00:24:23.380 --> 00:24:25.300
And so what does that do to thermoregulation?

00:24:25.300 --> 00:24:26.340
Are they nesting in the ground?

00:24:26.340 --> 00:24:29.460
Maybe because it's cooler in these really hot climates.

00:24:29.460 --> 00:24:30.740
And so, gosh.

00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:37.120
You start with making the observation, then you ask why, and now you just keep it just keeps going and going and going.

00:24:37.120 --> 00:24:39.200
There's just limitless questions in this space

00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:40.240
What does that do to your ventilation?

00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:41.200
Exactly.

00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:46.560
And and and are they choosing nests that have entrances that are the size of a quarter or much bigger?

00:24:46.560 --> 00:24:49.600
Well it are a lot of it's dictated by the animal that made the hole.

00:24:49.600 --> 00:24:52.240
So there's just so much to know in this space

00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:53.360
So much.

00:24:53.360 --> 00:24:54.080
I love it.

00:24:54.080 --> 00:24:55.440
That is fantastic.

00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.160
We could talk about this for a long time, but I'm pretty sure.

00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:02.960
I'm pretty sure I I hear the listeners say, but he knows so much about beekeeping in the United States.

00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:05.280
Let's just talk to him about that.

00:25:05.280 --> 00:25:05.600
So

00:25:06.700 --> 00:25:11.980
You did say you just mentioned to us how much you like actually working with beekeepers.

00:25:11.980 --> 00:25:14.540
For beekeepers, what has been

00:25:15.040 --> 00:25:21.440
the biggest change that you've seen and and what's their biggest need right now for the beekeepers in your area?

00:25:21.840 --> 00:25:23.520
Well, biggest change I

00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:28.260
think a lot of it has to do with the way that they receive information.

00:25:28.260 --> 00:25:34.820
I remember when I was brand new to the beekeeping world, we answered emails and we went and spoke at bee meetings and that's what we do.

00:25:34.820 --> 00:25:37.539
But here you are interviewing me on a podcast, right?

00:25:37.539 --> 00:25:37.779
Right.

00:25:38.019 --> 00:25:38.340
And you know

00:25:38.860 --> 00:25:50.059
uh and I think about uh you know the number of people who will come to a Jamie Ellis talk versus the number of people who will listen to me on a podcast versus the number of people who will watch me on a YouTube series.

00:25:50.059 --> 00:25:53.659
So you you think about the way Beekeeper's receiving information.

00:25:53.560 --> 00:25:55.000
And it's really pivoted.

00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:03.160
In the beekeeping industry, we hear a lot, kind of in in my beekeeping lifetime, the big thing

00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:07.679
Right when I started keeping bees, the big thing in the US was the introduction of Varroa.

00:26:07.679 --> 00:26:12.960
I I started keeping bees probably five or six, seven years right after varroa were discovered in the U.

00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:13.039
S.

00:26:13.120 --> 00:26:16.000
And so I don't know a time without varroa.

00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:17.260
So Varroa is not new to me.

00:26:17.420 --> 00:26:24.060
I think maybe one of the disappointing things to me is here we are 30 something years later and we're still talking about Varroa is the biggest issue.

00:26:24.060 --> 00:26:24.780
I guess

00:26:25.320 --> 00:26:33.400
Something that's been most alarming to me in in the beekeeping world is right about the time I got hired at the University of Florida in 2006, it was that winter.

00:26:33.419 --> 00:26:38.860
That colony loss rates were really high, and that's what produced all these discussions around CCD.

00:26:38.860 --> 00:26:43.179
And we've been talking about elevated colony loss rates ever since.

00:26:43.179 --> 00:26:43.900
And I think

00:26:44.320 --> 00:26:47.840
Prior to that, I just thought about varroa and things like that.

00:26:47.840 --> 00:26:57.440
Post that we now have more varroa and pesticides and tropa laylapse that we think about and yellow leg hornet, and it just seems like

00:26:57.440 --> 00:26:59.679
kind of never ending threats to the industry.

00:26:59.679 --> 00:27:03.440
But despite all of that, we still have bees in the US and they keep persisting.

00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:05.200
So, you know, changes

00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:12.880
Technology, how people receive information but threats, it's still that stupid varilla that I wish we could just kill and get out of our lives

00:27:14.380 --> 00:27:16.539
Just uh just to follow up.

00:27:16.539 --> 00:27:20.700
I I remember I used to say these these losses are are not they're not sustainable.

00:27:20.700 --> 00:27:24.299
And then I remember I forgot who I who I was talking to, but somebody was like

00:27:24.360 --> 00:27:29.799
You know, at a certain point we have to stop saying that because we are sustaining these high losses.

00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:31.559
The industry is sustaining them.

00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:33.799
But do you see the industry

00:27:34.620 --> 00:27:37.660
getting to a breaking point or a shift?

00:27:38.060 --> 00:27:43.580
Yeah, as a s as a scientist, I've always been really scared of speculating like at what point does

00:27:44.140 --> 00:27:45.900
the breaking point happened.

00:27:45.900 --> 00:27:50.540
When all of this first started happening, we did a lot I did a lot of math based on the loss numbers I would see.

00:27:50.540 --> 00:27:56.460
And for example, we were averaging roughly 35 to 40% gross loss rates every year in the U.

00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:56.860
S.

00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:59.820
But people weren't saying the word gross, they were saying losses.

00:27:59.820 --> 00:28:08.779
And if you do the math, if you if you start in two thousand and six, and I don't remember what number of colonies we had back then, but it's probably around two and a half million, if you do

00:28:09.060 --> 00:28:11.780
Forty percent losses every year since 2006.

00:28:11.780 --> 00:28:14.740
Today we'd have fewer than a thousand colonies left in the United States.

00:28:14.740 --> 00:28:16.980
And so we know that so we know that

00:28:17.500 --> 00:28:21.100
It's more complex than having just 40% loss rates.

00:28:21.100 --> 00:28:22.460
Really, those are gross losses.

00:28:22.460 --> 00:28:28.700
If you look at the net change, we've actually averaged a net increase in colonies that same period of about a percent of colonies a year.

00:28:28.700 --> 00:28:30.860
That's changed recently with the most recent years.

00:28:30.860 --> 00:28:31.900
But the point is is

00:28:32.120 --> 00:28:42.200
You know, somehow beekeepers are having experiencing these high gross loss rates, you know, 40%, but somehow they're overcoming those to have a net change of actually a 1% increase.

00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:45.960
And that's because beekeepers right now are really good at making more bees.

00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:48.600
Buying packages and buying more colonies.

00:28:48.600 --> 00:28:54.039
So the question is is at what point will we reach gross loss rates that we can't

00:28:54.220 --> 00:28:55.180
recover from it.

00:28:55.180 --> 00:28:56.380
I I just don't know.

00:28:56.380 --> 00:28:59.580
I mean, every year it seemed like the news gets scarier, right?

00:28:59.580 --> 00:29:01.820
But every year we still have bees and

00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:08.840
I I just know it's really hard to be a commercial beekeeper and manage 5,000, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 colleagues.

00:29:08.840 --> 00:29:09.800
I don't know how they do it.

00:29:09.800 --> 00:29:11.480
And they're superstars really.

00:29:11.300 --> 00:29:17.060
They're superheroes about just the volume of work and how they're fighting to overcome these losses that they're experiencing every year.

00:29:17.060 --> 00:29:19.940
And I just it's hard for me to speculate at what point

00:29:20.419 --> 00:29:24.980
Will we be at that point that's that w from which we can't recover?

00:29:25.140 --> 00:29:26.500
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00:31:13.059 --> 00:31:14.580
Welcome back, everybody.

00:31:14.580 --> 00:31:16.340
Okay, Jeff, I got the message.

00:31:16.340 --> 00:31:16.740
That was

00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:20.400
I'm gonna ask happy questions from here on out.

00:31:21.520 --> 00:31:27.200
Actually, but but seriously, JB, that was it that was just a really nice analysis of the industry.

00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:28.720
So thank you for that.

00:31:28.360 --> 00:31:33.000
On the flip side, beekeepers have never been as talented as they are today.

00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:39.480
We already talked about how smart they are, but in order to keep your colonies alive, in order to

00:31:40.040 --> 00:31:42.360
keep your operations stable.

00:31:42.360 --> 00:31:43.880
They have to be really good at this.

00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:49.240
And and one of the things that your you started was the master beekeeping, correct, at University of Florida.

00:31:49.360 --> 00:31:55.919
What are you seeing as far as the skills of beekeepers and how is that master beekeeping program contributing to the increases?

00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:59.200
So what I what I see with the skills of beekeepers, I I I really agree.

00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:02.000
And it's kinda like let's scale it, like commercial beekeepers.

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.200
They they have

00:32:03.220 --> 00:32:04.980
amazing network.

00:32:04.980 --> 00:32:09.380
It's funny, they're aware of research manuscripts often faster than I am.

00:32:09.380 --> 00:32:15.140
I mean they're sharing them, they're discussing the results, and they'll come to me and say, Jamie, have you read this paper, etc.

00:32:15.300 --> 00:32:15.540
And

00:32:15.740 --> 00:32:19.500
You know, they're learning about things that people didn't have to deal with years ago.

00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:23.420
They're learning about RNAI technology and climate impact on bees.

00:32:23.800 --> 00:32:27.640
Breeding stocks and new knowledge on nutrition that we've never had to consider.

00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:32.280
They're understanding toxicology beyond simply bees dying when they get exposed to pesticides.

00:32:32.280 --> 00:32:34.280
So such an informed group.

00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:40.179
In our case in Florida, we did start a UFIFIS master beekeeper program.

00:32:40.179 --> 00:32:43.940
Now lots of states have master beekeeper programs or fantastic ways.

00:32:43.660 --> 00:32:45.980
Um educating beekeepers in our state.

00:32:45.980 --> 00:32:52.140
We've moved ours entirely online, which which allows us to get the information out to beekeepers not only in Florida but around the U.

00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:52.220
S.

00:32:52.380 --> 00:32:54.140
is also around the world.

00:32:54.060 --> 00:32:59.100
And we we find that Master Beekeeper programs are a really good way to inform beekeepers.

00:32:59.340 --> 00:33:02.780
They're especially good for hobbyists and new beekeepers.

00:33:02.660 --> 00:33:06.580
those individuals who are supporting the commercial beekeepers in other ways.

00:33:06.580 --> 00:33:07.940
Let me let me explain what I mean.

00:33:08.260 --> 00:33:16.180
You know, oftentimes people is, you know, I go to a lot of meetings and you'll hear people say things like, well, commercial guys get frustrated by the hobbyists and vice versa.

00:33:16.180 --> 00:33:16.660
But I

00:33:17.019 --> 00:33:19.419
But bee colonies don't vote.

00:33:19.419 --> 00:33:20.380
People do.

00:33:20.380 --> 00:33:24.539
And a hobbyist vote is as important as a commercial beekeeper's vote.

00:33:24.539 --> 00:33:29.820
And what I find is that in these bee clubs where commercial beekeepers are able to talk about the issues

00:33:29.860 --> 00:33:35.539
that their colonies are facing, these these hobbyists and sideliners will go to bat at state legislators, etc.

00:33:35.700 --> 00:33:38.980
, to on behalf of the commercial industry, there's power in numbers.

00:33:38.980 --> 00:33:43.299
When lots of beekeepers talk about being affected, then it really makes a big, big difference.

00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:49.039
We we see our responsibility through Master Beekeeper program to educate whoever joins it.

00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:57.360
We do get a disproportionate of hobbyists and sideliners who go into our Master Beekeeper program and we work really hard to provide cutting-edge information to them so that they

00:33:57.540 --> 00:34:03.220
Hear about the issues that bee colonies face and that commercial beekeepers encounter so that they're ready to assist.

00:34:03.220 --> 00:34:09.140
They're ready to address husbandry in their own colonies and ensure that their colonies are healthy and productive, but also

00:34:09.359 --> 00:34:14.639
that it builds community towards a common goal of keeping bees healthy on a national and international level.

00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:19.919
So we don't just do that through our master beekeeper program, but that is certainly one way that we do that.

00:34:19.919 --> 00:34:22.320
And we really value the fact that we've put it online.

00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:22.960
It's

00:34:22.659 --> 00:34:24.659
It's it be it's become self-paced.

00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:25.620
People can do it.

00:34:25.940 --> 00:34:30.020
They're not relying on us to show up at a at a spot and teach them.

00:34:30.020 --> 00:34:33.379
We can change the information behind the scenes as we get a lot of new information.

00:34:33.379 --> 00:34:36.980
We've just found it as a really valuable way to deliver information to beekeepers.

00:34:37.340 --> 00:34:40.780
We we like it and we we feel like it's been very successful for us.

00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:43.820
How many master beekeepers have you put through the program?

00:34:43.820 --> 00:34:48.940
I think with the online program we're over two, two and a half thousand beekeepers in it right now.

00:34:49.260 --> 00:34:49.820
That's respectful.

00:34:49.820 --> 00:34:50.460
That's really nice.

00:34:51.260 --> 00:34:58.380
Yeah, I'd I'd hesitate to give an exact number because because that because my colleague Amy Vu manages it, but the last I saw it's over two thousand.

00:34:58.380 --> 00:35:03.420
And honestly, we can reach so many more people.

00:35:03.059 --> 00:35:06.500
with the system the way it currently is and the way we used to do it.

00:35:06.500 --> 00:35:08.099
And so it's really been good.

00:35:08.180 --> 00:35:15.859
Does that community also serve to help share information that's vital for the industry and emerging?

00:35:15.740 --> 00:35:16.540
Absolutely.

00:35:16.540 --> 00:35:21.820
What we do is we build into our Master Beekeeper program, you know, the standard stuff.

00:35:21.820 --> 00:35:25.100
They have to watch lectures and they have to take quizzes and all those kinds of things.

00:35:25.100 --> 00:35:27.500
But we also require them to take

00:35:27.460 --> 00:35:36.020
public we we also require them to accumulate a number of essentially what are public service credits where they have to go out and educate non-beekeeping audiences.

00:35:36.020 --> 00:35:38.260
They have to doc document that they made

00:35:38.620 --> 00:35:43.020
those educational events and they have to get people to sign off on it.

00:35:43.020 --> 00:35:44.460
They upload it into our system.

00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:48.380
So we have a good understanding of, you know, how many events

00:35:48.660 --> 00:35:53.620
these uh master beekeepers are speaking on every year, how many people they're reaching and those kinds of things.

00:35:53.620 --> 00:35:58.740
So we do require participants in our program to provide that education to the masses.

00:35:58.640 --> 00:36:12.319
And we think that that also really helps because a lot of people who who are peripherally involved in our program, you know, master beekeepers are directly involved in our program, but people who are peripherally involved in our program via Master Beekeepers

00:36:12.160 --> 00:36:14.160
can benefit from beekeeper knowledge that way.

00:36:14.160 --> 00:36:18.960
So master beekeepers almost become ambassadors for bees and beekeeping in many ways.

00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:26.000
And that's something that we we have seen, you know, pay dividends for honeybee health and honey bee research and honeybee education.

00:36:25.640 --> 00:36:30.119
You had mentioned earlier that you really are passionate about the research.

00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:35.319
Anything that you're working on that you would like to highlight first off before we start

00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:38.540
Picking some of our own favorite topics.

00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:49.420
Yeah, I will say the things that my team and I have been involved most with from a honey bee husbandry perspective, because we've talked a little bit about our wild bee ecology, so I'll we'll pivot to honey bee husbandry.

00:36:49.099 --> 00:36:52.700
is we have a reasonable footprint in the toxicology space.

00:36:52.700 --> 00:36:55.740
We have a pretty good footprint in the nutrition space.

00:36:55.740 --> 00:36:58.940
And we have a big footprint in disease and pest control.

00:36:58.940 --> 00:37:02.140
So, you know, I did my PhD with small high beetles, but we've also

00:37:02.160 --> 00:37:08.000
Since I've been at UF, done a lot of work with Farroa, we've done work with Nozema, you know, those types of things.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:12.480
So disease and pest control, toxicology, and nutrition are all kind of big areas.

00:37:12.340 --> 00:37:15.300
that members of our team have focused on over the years.

00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:17.220
Do I get to ask a bunch of questions now just?

00:37:18.980 --> 00:37:20.820
Oh Jamie, I'm not asking you permission.

00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:22.020
You're our guest.

00:37:22.020 --> 00:37:23.300
I'm kidding.

00:37:23.980 --> 00:37:25.020
I'm kidding.

00:37:25.020 --> 00:37:29.740
Really quickly on the nocema front, we're lacking really good control.

00:37:29.740 --> 00:37:33.580
Is is there any promise that you're finding in in propolis?

00:37:33.359 --> 00:37:41.359
Yeah, we've done some work with propolis where feeding bees various concentrations of propolis extract can

00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:47.200
impact nozema loads, increase their longevity, et cetera, in cage trials in the laboratory.

00:37:47.200 --> 00:37:51.120
So a propylus extract is you take propolis and you freeze it, and then you

00:37:51.540 --> 00:38:00.180
Take it out of the freezer and you grind it up and then you let it soak in ethanol for a period of time and then you take that extract and use it in your experiments.

00:38:00.040 --> 00:38:02.440
And we've seen nozema loads go down.

00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:08.120
We've seen, like I said, longevity extended for bees that are treated this way with nozema.

00:38:08.120 --> 00:38:09.800
Now we've stopped short of recommending

00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:18.440
Probus, we haven't really taken it to the field, but there's certainly a lot of cage trials that we have done with colleagues to see that there's certainly some promise there.

00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:20.440
We you know my colleague Dr.

00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:24.440
Cameron Jack who works here at University of Florida did his master's research on nocemo.

00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:27.480
Usually when I have no cEMO questions, I kick them his way.

00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:31.480
But we did do some of that propuls work and I and I say it looks

00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:34.800
promising enough that we'll probably continue to explore it in the future.

00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:39.680
I'm intrigued by the propolis extraction and feeding that to the bees.

00:38:39.640 --> 00:38:48.279
Do you foresee that as ever possibly being a direction, or is it more of a the propelist envelope is really there?

00:38:48.279 --> 00:38:50.440
There's something to it that is valuable?

00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:52.240
So I would say possibly both.

00:38:52.240 --> 00:38:54.640
I'm going to start on the second comment first.

00:38:54.640 --> 00:38:58.319
So we've we've not specifically done work with the propose envelope, but

00:38:58.260 --> 00:39:00.580
But for sure I've I'm aware of all that research.

00:39:00.580 --> 00:39:02.580
It is very important to be.

00:39:02.580 --> 00:39:07.860
So I know that in South Africa where I did my own PhD and where, like I said, I've got students studying.

00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:11.200
propylus use of those bees is is really through the roof.

00:39:11.200 --> 00:39:19.520
Some of some of my favorite things to think about is I've had a student who years ago went and saw some colonies nesting in cliffs.

00:39:19.520 --> 00:39:22.480
And so since we're on a podcast I'll have to describe this well because it's

00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:27.240
Nobody can visualize it, but but think about an opening in a cliff, right?

00:39:27.240 --> 00:39:29.960
A cavity kind of pushed back into the rock.

00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:30.520
Well

00:39:30.540 --> 00:39:32.380
the face of that's open, right?

00:39:32.380 --> 00:39:34.060
There's just this big opening.

00:39:34.060 --> 00:39:41.020
And so, you know, uh think almost like a a small cave that only goes back a foot or two into this cliff wall.

00:39:41.020 --> 00:39:43.180
Well, that means one side of that

00:39:43.340 --> 00:39:43.820
is open.

00:39:43.820 --> 00:39:44.860
It's open on the face.

00:39:44.860 --> 00:39:48.780
Well, we've we've got pictures of honeybees going into those cavities and nesting.

00:39:48.780 --> 00:39:55.420
And they will build a sheet, a wall of propolis down the opening of that cavity.

00:39:55.420 --> 00:39:59.500
and only leave space at the bottom of that sheet for just a few bees to pass.

00:39:59.500 --> 00:40:06.620
And so they're building, I don't know what it is, a a a foot tall wall of propolis that's, you know, a foot wide.

00:40:06.620 --> 00:40:06.940
And

00:40:07.680 --> 00:40:10.240
that's pretty significant propylis use.

00:40:10.240 --> 00:40:14.400
And I know that in the colonies there you see or in the in the manish hives there you see that as well.

00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:16.800
So clearly the propolis envelope is very important.

00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:22.079
Your your first comment was, do I ever foresee a day maybe that we we actually start feeding

00:40:22.080 --> 00:40:23.040
Problis to bees.

00:40:23.120 --> 00:40:28.720
I would say, you know, you uh when you hear me talk, you'll probably hear the trained skeptical research.

00:40:28.720 --> 00:40:30.240
We see evidence

00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:36.520
that it can impact nozema in bees, but I'll stop short of saying that that everybody should go out and feed it to bees.

00:40:36.520 --> 00:40:38.359
I feel like we need to know more before we get there.

00:40:38.359 --> 00:40:39.800
But people have looked at propolis

00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:42.720
impact on viruses and other things.

00:40:42.720 --> 00:40:53.200
So it it it's gaining steam both from uh how important is it in the nest of bees to is there a way we can use it as an additive

00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:55.760
to control some of these other other diseases.

00:40:56.160 --> 00:41:00.800
And we won't even go down the road of people using the propolis tinctures in

00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:01.680
Oh yeah.

00:41:01.680 --> 00:41:03.280
And supplements or whatever.

00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:12.320
And that's that's easy for me to discuss because I'm not a medical doctor, so all I can say is I'd have to defer to my my medical colleagues when we talk about human health related issues.

00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:13.760
Fair enough.

00:41:14.180 --> 00:41:16.020
Can we talk about nutrition for a little bit?

00:41:16.260 --> 00:41:17.059
Sure, absolutely.

00:41:17.059 --> 00:41:17.619
Okay.

00:41:17.619 --> 00:41:27.460
So I think that being a beekeeper in Minnesota and I winter in Minnesota, it's so much easier because we've got great nutrition in the summer and then

00:41:27.660 --> 00:41:34.220
pollen, you know, all the way till Octoberish and then everything shuts down and the bees aren't stimulated.

00:41:34.220 --> 00:41:39.020
They just get kind of a a nice dearth period and are are without brood.

00:41:39.020 --> 00:41:40.460
You're in Florida

00:41:40.620 --> 00:41:47.900
And although food might be abundant, isn't that stressful and difficult for the bees potentially

00:41:47.980 --> 00:41:53.020
I'll I'll be a good scientist and say we don't know for sure, but it's certainly easy to hypothesize.

00:41:53.020 --> 00:41:55.819
So let me let me elaborate on that a little bit

00:41:56.020 --> 00:41:58.820
We we do not grow go broodless here.

00:41:58.820 --> 00:42:03.380
Our our colonies do not go broodless in Gainesville, which is kind of north central Florida.

00:42:03.380 --> 00:42:09.940
Now, maybe some of our colonies do, but by and large, all of our colonies have brood through winter.

00:42:09.940 --> 00:42:10.260
And

00:42:10.640 --> 00:42:16.000
We also have put pollen traps on colonies, off and on every month throughout the year.

00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:18.400
And we get pollen every month throughout the year.

00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:21.520
So we we do the pollen traps to see if there's incoming pollen.

00:42:21.520 --> 00:42:22.000
We do.

00:42:22.380 --> 00:42:27.660
So there is this big question: can you overwork colonies?

00:42:27.660 --> 00:42:34.539
Can colonies overwork and be too active through a season because they never get that opportunity to shut down?

00:42:34.460 --> 00:42:44.220
Well, you know, mollifera is a remarkable species because it nests from middle to northern Europe all the way to the southern tip of Africa.

00:42:44.220 --> 00:42:47.660
And as a result, you get subspecies of mellifera.

00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:51.480
that are accustomed to being brood, you know, having brood year-round.

00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:59.079
But you also get subspecies of mellifera that are accustomed to shutting down brood in winter because they're in cold climates.

00:42:59.040 --> 00:43:06.240
And it is easy to speculate that colonies that keep going and keep going and keep going and keep going may be stressed.

00:43:06.240 --> 00:43:09.840
And I think that that's a topic that's certainly waiting to be investigated.

00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:14.160
I'll say I should have said also with the pressure of Varroa.

00:43:14.160 --> 00:43:15.360
I think that's the caveat.

00:43:15.600 --> 00:43:19.520
Yeah, so when I think then about colonies being pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed

00:43:19.640 --> 00:43:23.720
maybe like we see in in some warmer climates, there's there's really two big issues at play.

00:43:23.720 --> 00:43:26.440
The first of those is nutrition, which I'll deal with second.

00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:29.720
And the second of those is new is varilla, which I'll deal with first.

00:43:29.720 --> 00:43:30.599
If if you've got

00:43:31.040 --> 00:43:38.240
If you've got this kind of perpetual brood cycle in colonies, then then varroa are capable of reproducing throughout the year.

00:43:38.240 --> 00:43:39.120
As a result

00:43:39.900 --> 00:43:46.940
Varroa populations can get back up and going pretty quickly coming out of winter going into early spring here in Florida.

00:43:46.940 --> 00:43:48.060
We've seen that.

00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:49.960
Plenty of times in our research projects.

00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:56.280
So varona is a big deal, especially in areas where you've got just this never ending brood.

00:43:56.280 --> 00:44:00.600
Now the nutrition side of things is also tricky.

00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:04.880
But just because pollen's coming in doesn't mean that the pollen is good for them.

00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:08.240
And and we know that that beekeepers try to combat

00:44:08.260 --> 00:44:09.220
Maybe not combat.

00:44:09.220 --> 00:44:13.380
Beekeepers try to address honey bee nutrition from two different perspectives.

00:44:13.380 --> 00:44:16.100
The carbohydrate deficiency

00:44:16.240 --> 00:44:18.240
And the pollen deficiency.

00:44:18.240 --> 00:44:27.840
And of the two of those, the carbohydrate deficiency is the easier of the two to address, because when bees don't have enough nectar or honey, you just feed them a sugar source, right?

00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:29.600
We're all accustomed to feeding sugar syrup.

00:44:29.600 --> 00:44:30.400
It's it's

00:44:30.240 --> 00:44:33.520
easy, it's unquestionable, it's very direct, we know.

00:44:33.520 --> 00:44:37.600
Now, some people will say, well Jamie, it's equally easy to address pollen deficiencies.

00:44:37.600 --> 00:44:39.200
You just feed pollen substitutes.

00:44:39.200 --> 00:44:44.480
Well I would argue through our research and then through a critical review of the literature that we've done

00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:47.900
on pollen subs is that it's not that intuitive.

00:44:47.900 --> 00:44:56.940
There's as much research there there are as many research papers showing that a pollen sub did nothing to a colony as there are papers that show that they did something.

00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:58.540
And and and I think

00:44:58.940 --> 00:45:05.900
The reason we hover on nutrition is because I think that nutrition represents one of the greatest opportunities for improvement of bee health.

00:45:05.900 --> 00:45:06.540
We know

00:45:07.099 --> 00:45:10.060
Whether we love it or not, we know what we have to do with varroa.

00:45:10.060 --> 00:45:11.660
We need more control strategies.

00:45:11.660 --> 00:45:15.260
But with nutrition, we we need to know better what bees need.

00:45:15.260 --> 00:45:18.140
We need to know better about how to deliver it to them.

00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:24.280
And and we need to know that just because you we put a pollen sub in there and it disappears doesn't mean that bees are using it.

00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:27.560
Bees will throw stuff out of the colony that they don't use all the time.

00:45:27.560 --> 00:45:32.760
And and that's kind of where our nutrition research is hovered, is is their utilization of pollen.

00:45:32.160 --> 00:45:36.960
pollen subs and and we've had some pretty pr uh uh surprising results in that space.

00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:43.760
You're using some, I don't want to say new well, newer technology, aren't you, in order to evaluate how it impacts the bees?

00:45:44.020 --> 00:45:54.500
Well we've we've used I think some pretty easy ways to determine pollen sub utilization and and what we did is is I had a student, Emily Nordike, who did a really great job.

00:45:54.500 --> 00:45:58.660
We just simply ask when you put a pollen sub in a colony where does it go?

00:45:58.120 --> 00:45:58.600
Right?

00:45:58.600 --> 00:46:01.560
If if bees use how how do bees use pollen?

00:46:01.560 --> 00:46:06.680
They the adults eat it, you know, in in part to develop their food producing lands.

00:46:06.300 --> 00:46:11.020
They mix it a little bit of it potentially into the food for the young larva for the older larvae.

00:46:11.020 --> 00:46:12.860
And number three, they store it as bee bread.

00:46:12.860 --> 00:46:17.980
So if they use pollen subs, like they use pollen, we'd expect to find it in adults.

00:46:17.700 --> 00:46:19.700
We'd expect to find it in brood.

00:46:19.700 --> 00:46:22.099
We'd expect to find it in bee bred.

00:46:22.099 --> 00:46:25.700
So my student just simply dyed pollen subs to see where it went.

00:46:25.700 --> 00:46:28.020
And the only place we could find it was in adult bees.

00:46:28.020 --> 00:46:32.660
And so from there she did other projects to see where it might be going and how it might be used.

00:46:32.460 --> 00:46:34.780
But it was actually just based on dyeing it.

00:46:34.780 --> 00:46:38.780
Dye the stuff, color color the pollen, see where it goes, and start there.

00:46:38.780 --> 00:46:43.180
But I've got colleagues around the US who are looking at lipid to protein ratios, right?

00:46:43.180 --> 00:46:46.380
They're doing that with Juliana Rangel out of Texas AM University

00:46:46.140 --> 00:46:47.020
Very important stuff.

00:46:47.020 --> 00:46:59.420
Colleagues at the USDA lab and Baton Rouge who are looking at delivery methods and and new things like I believe it's modifying algae, I believe, some some or s or some sort of thing that they're doing.

00:46:59.160 --> 00:47:02.280
in order to to make more nutritious foodstuffs for bees.

00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:08.280
So we we live at a great time of nutrition exploration and and my team and I are just trying to

00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:13.320
make our small, hopefully impactful contribution in in that in that space.

00:47:13.640 --> 00:47:14.920
Despite the hive beetles.

00:47:15.160 --> 00:47:17.320
Yeah, despite small hive beetles.

00:47:19.579 --> 00:47:23.900
Any leeway on research on small high beetle that's promising?

00:47:24.220 --> 00:47:27.420
Yeah, we did some work a couple years ago that we published recently.

00:47:27.420 --> 00:47:33.180
Well, I say recently, it's been within the last few years, where we were looking at some new control options for small high beetles and sound some

00:47:33.040 --> 00:47:37.360
found some promising things, but but I I just want to make the point that, you know, Dr.

00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:40.960
Cameron Jack has continued to look for strategies to control small high beetles.

00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:42.880
There's some promising stuff coming out of Dr.

00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:44.800
Lewis Bartlett at the University of Georgia.

00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:46.320
So there's lots of folks

00:47:46.240 --> 00:47:53.440
currently who are trying to knock out that little beetle and I tell ya I I'll say this and I haven't said it yet, but the the young

00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:57.600
crop of scientists that are coming up today are so smart.

00:47:57.600 --> 00:48:06.480
And when they're given tasks like controlling small high beetles or developing new nutrition substitutes, I think I think we're just on the cusp of really great progress in the B world.

00:48:06.380 --> 00:48:07.740
Okay, I have one more question.

00:48:08.780 --> 00:48:10.220
This is an easy one.

00:48:10.220 --> 00:48:16.620
In the research colonies that you have, what kind of um subspecies or lines are you working with?

00:48:16.460 --> 00:48:18.540
It's interesting that you asked that question.

00:48:18.540 --> 00:48:24.460
We we have no affiliation or affinity as it were for any one subspecies.

00:48:24.460 --> 00:48:27.100
We just buy the queens that are available in our area.

00:48:27.100 --> 00:48:28.940
In my postdoc years

00:48:29.140 --> 00:48:36.980
At the University of Georgia, you know, 20 plus years ago, we were I had looked at uh Russian honeybees as part of some Barolla IPM research that we were doing.

00:48:36.980 --> 00:48:38.660
But here at the University of Florida,

00:48:39.020 --> 00:48:42.780
Most of our research is what we just call um with mutt bees.

00:48:42.780 --> 00:48:46.619
Now my colleague Cameron Jack and I have done some work.

00:48:46.619 --> 00:48:51.260
It's principally him doing it where he's put some of these stocks to test.

00:48:51.140 --> 00:48:52.260
here at UF.

00:48:52.260 --> 00:48:57.380
Those include the Russian bees and I believe he's tried new world cardiolons in the pole line out of the USDA lab.

00:48:57.380 --> 00:49:01.619
But though a lot of that's just pilot work to set himself up to do much bigger projects.

00:49:01.619 --> 00:49:05.539
So most of what we do in our standard run of the mill research

00:49:05.260 --> 00:49:10.140
It's just it's they're just the mutt bees that we can find and that are available at any given time.

00:49:10.140 --> 00:49:19.980
You had mentioned earlier that you're doing some work on uh toxicology and is that in regards to pesticides and herbicides and the effects on the colony?

00:49:19.940 --> 00:49:20.900
Absolutely.

00:49:20.900 --> 00:49:29.300
When when I first got to UF, the University of Florida, you know, 2006 again, those were the years of coding losses, right?

00:49:29.300 --> 00:49:30.820
2006, 2050.

00:49:30.820 --> 00:49:31.859
We still have it, but

00:49:32.040 --> 00:49:35.160
It was just the major news story, the my first ten years at UF.

00:49:35.160 --> 00:49:40.280
And pesticides got thrown around a lot as potential contributors to collagen losses.

00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:42.200
And I started dabbling in that space.

00:49:42.200 --> 00:49:46.760
Now I've learned so much about toxicology that I did not know.

00:49:47.099 --> 00:49:50.300
We all can say that than uh than I than when I first started.

00:49:50.300 --> 00:49:59.339
So we have done a lot of work to try to understand potential pesticide impacts on bees, and that's been from treating adult bees.

00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:01.160
to treating immature bees.

00:50:01.160 --> 00:50:05.560
We've done a lot of work with immature bees, to looking at mosquito control impact.

00:50:05.560 --> 00:50:07.400
That's been some of our more recent research.

00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:10.840
And and I have a new graduate student, for example, who's going to look at

00:50:11.040 --> 00:50:16.560
synergisms, mixing pesticides with multiple other stressors to see how that might impact beats.

00:50:16.560 --> 00:50:25.760
So I continue to work in that space and we have a reasonable footprint on uh in that toxicology research here at our lab at UF.

00:50:25.040 --> 00:50:28.240
Anything stands out as surprising at this point?

00:50:28.240 --> 00:50:33.520
I think the thing that I have learned most in the toxicology space

00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:40.000
Is that it's often not as simple as the way it's portrayed in discussions.

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:43.360
Let me let me give the most basic example of that

00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:49.520
You know, with with with regard to toxicology, almost anything's toxic, right?

00:50:49.520 --> 00:50:52.000
You can drink too much water.

00:50:51.940 --> 00:50:55.700
and and suffer uh a toxicological impact from that.

00:50:55.700 --> 00:51:00.500
And the toxicologists often have this adage, the dose makes the poison.

00:51:00.359 --> 00:51:04.520
So, you know, this idea that you take anything, enough of anything, it can be a problem.

00:51:04.520 --> 00:51:05.880
We see that in human health.

00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:08.920
You know, a little bit of something and it makes our headaches go away.

00:51:08.920 --> 00:51:12.359
A lot of that same thing and it could put us in the hospital.

00:51:12.340 --> 00:51:19.300
Well, with honey bees, it's similar, but a lot of what drives the discussion in honey bees is this toxicology.

00:51:19.300 --> 00:51:24.340
If something is toxic to bees, it must be bad in all circumstances, and we should never use it again

00:51:24.620 --> 00:51:26.860
But it's more nuanced than that.

00:51:26.860 --> 00:51:34.140
And what I've learned in toxicology research is you can find a lot of toxicological impacts of any pesticide that you study on bees.

00:51:34.140 --> 00:51:36.540
The question is, is does that stuff

00:51:37.120 --> 00:51:40.400
pose a risk just because it's toxic.

00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:47.280
And and risk assessments is where we really get a lot risk assessments are really where we get a lot more information.

00:51:47.059 --> 00:51:49.859
than just saying pesticide A is good or bad.

00:51:49.859 --> 00:51:50.980
And what do I mean by that?

00:51:50.980 --> 00:51:56.740
Well risk takes into account not just toxicity, but also exposure.

00:51:56.740 --> 00:52:00.740
So knowing how toxic a compound is

00:52:01.120 --> 00:52:07.600
And the routes of exposure together allow us to calculate risk.

00:52:07.600 --> 00:52:12.000
And it's really risk that drives the impact of these things on bees.

00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.920
And so what my team and I have been

00:52:14.140 --> 00:52:27.819
very careful to do in our more recent toxicology work is we don't just generate toxicity data, how much of product X does it take to kill bees, we also couple that with exposure data so that we can make statements about

00:52:28.660 --> 00:52:29.460
Risk.

00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:40.260
While this might have high or low toxicity, here is the risk that it poses to bees based on what we know about how frequently they encounter it in the environment.

00:52:40.240 --> 00:52:46.160
Does that risk model also include long-term exposure, repeated long-term exposure?

00:52:46.160 --> 00:52:48.640
So there are risk models that take into effect

00:52:48.680 --> 00:52:51.560
to it take into account chronic exposure.

00:52:51.560 --> 00:53:01.080
So so uh acute exposure is usually where you get a high enough concentration or dose to create a noticeable effect, I will say rather quickly.

00:53:01.080 --> 00:53:02.920
A chronic is where you get

00:53:03.120 --> 00:53:08.800
lower doses over time where it might manifest later.

00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:14.800
Now this is not a perfect science, but but there are risk assessment models that look both at acute

00:53:15.120 --> 00:53:23.120
and a chronic and the EPA a chronic exposure scenarios and the EPA wants both sets of data as they're making their decisions.

00:53:23.120 --> 00:53:24.080
Now it's

00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:32.640
Again, very tricky because a lot of this work starts in the laboratory, then it moves to cage studies in the field, then it meets to full field studies.

00:53:32.640 --> 00:53:36.560
But I just I've just learned so much more

00:53:37.040 --> 00:53:41.600
in my last 20 years than just you put a pesticide on a bee's back and it dies.

00:53:41.600 --> 00:53:47.120
And I think the nuance of toxicology in the bee world is what I've what I've

00:53:47.820 --> 00:53:51.580
become most appreciative of and trying to figure out these true impacts.

00:53:51.580 --> 00:53:59.100
And now we're going to be moving in the direction of how does how do these stressors interact with other stressors that we know.

00:53:59.100 --> 00:54:02.060
I mean, let's just pause for a second and say

00:54:02.540 --> 00:54:08.300
What does the average colony have in it at any given time?

00:54:08.300 --> 00:54:12.220
Well, we are almost certainly going to find a virus.

00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:16.400
If you look, you're almost certainly going to find nozema if you look.

00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:20.640
Here in Florida, you're almost certainly going to find a small high beetle

00:54:20.840 --> 00:54:23.240
a wax moth, and a varilla.

00:54:23.240 --> 00:54:30.280
If you do a residue analysis, you're almost certainly going to find at least one, if not more, pesticides

00:54:30.520 --> 00:54:39.320
So just, you know, again, just I know this is verbal, but I've got six fingers up at the moment, and I haven't thought about nutrition stress and these other things.

00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:41.720
So the average colony is starting

00:54:41.940 --> 00:54:44.500
with five, six, seven stressors.

00:54:44.500 --> 00:54:47.460
And so it's never just one thing that bees are encountering.

00:54:47.460 --> 00:54:49.060
They're always encountering multiple things.

00:54:49.060 --> 00:54:51.140
And how do they work together?

00:54:51.120 --> 00:54:53.520
to impact long-term survival and productivity.

00:54:53.520 --> 00:54:56.480
And this is where we're all headed in in in the near future.

00:54:56.800 --> 00:55:01.040
Well it sounds depressing, but it actually is pretty exciting that we're looking at that now.

00:55:01.040 --> 00:55:01.200
And

00:55:01.740 --> 00:55:05.020
Looking for answers and and looking at the effects of it all.

00:55:05.020 --> 00:55:06.300
I think that's really good.

00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:08.620
Yeah, Jeff, I wanna I wanna piggyback on something.

00:55:08.620 --> 00:55:13.660
This idea of depressing and I remember right before we took the the break, we were talking about how intense the conversation.

00:55:13.660 --> 00:55:16.460
You know, people people often bring me on to talk about stress.

00:55:16.820 --> 00:55:18.580
And how we're going to do research to address it.

00:55:18.580 --> 00:55:25.700
But fundamentally, honey bees are still here, and beekeeping is still fun

00:55:26.520 --> 00:55:30.520
I still like it and people still keep bees alive.

00:55:30.520 --> 00:55:31.880
So it is possible.

00:55:31.880 --> 00:55:37.000
And while we are working on stressors, I don't think we should lose sight.

00:55:36.840 --> 00:55:41.960
Of how amazing it is that we get to work with this honeybee.

00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:46.440
And despite all of these other things, they have persisted

00:55:46.520 --> 00:55:48.440
They're still here.

00:55:48.440 --> 00:55:54.359
So you're right, it is depressing and can be discouraging, but but at the end of the day, they're still here.

00:55:54.359 --> 00:55:56.359
They're still available for us to work with.

00:55:56.359 --> 00:55:57.960
We we almost have this

00:55:58.580 --> 00:56:03.700
responsibility to shepherd them through these issues that they're facing.

00:56:03.700 --> 00:56:09.460
But I'm optimistic that we are doing that as beekeepers, as bee scientists, as the industry.

00:56:09.460 --> 00:56:09.700
I I

00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:17.080
I really am optimistic that despite the dark days we've been through, that the good days are ahead.

00:56:17.240 --> 00:56:24.760
Great way to leave that discussion because we're coming up on the end of our time, but I do want to leave with some other news.

00:56:24.500 --> 00:56:26.740
Can you share that with our listeners now?

00:56:27.060 --> 00:56:35.780
Yeah, so I've had an amazing job at the University of Florida for for almost 20 years, amazing beekeepers, amazing support by the University of Florida, Florida.

00:56:36.020 --> 00:56:36.340
Just

00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:38.240
FART has been a great place to work.

00:56:38.240 --> 00:56:41.839
But recently I I was offered a position at the University of Georgia.

00:56:41.839 --> 00:56:47.200
I don't know what time this is going to be broadcast, so we're recording this late February 2026.

00:56:47.059 --> 00:56:55.619
And in summer of 2026, I'll be transitioning from the University of Florida to the University of Georgia, where I will have the opportunity to, you know, continue

00:56:55.859 --> 00:57:00.740
the type of research and extension and instructional efforts that that I've been very fortunate to do here at UF.

00:57:00.740 --> 00:57:02.740
So I'm looking forward to that opportunity.

00:57:02.740 --> 00:57:03.940
It's very bittersweet for me.

00:57:03.940 --> 00:57:08.260
I I've loved Florida and all that Florida's been able to do the university, the beekeepers, etc.

00:57:08.100 --> 00:57:20.100
But my wife and I are both from Georgia and we are excited about the opportunity to quote unquote return home and be able to make maybe amplify our impact at the University of Georgia that's that's really keen to invest

00:57:20.420 --> 00:57:23.700
even more than they already have in in their Amazing B program.

00:57:23.700 --> 00:57:31.460
So I've been fortunate to be part of a good program at UF, going to a good program at University of Georgia, and and I just

00:57:31.840 --> 00:57:36.160
I'm so excited excited about all that's happening in the B world.

00:57:36.160 --> 00:57:40.320
Twenty years ago, the universities were losing B programs.

00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:44.640
Now universities are gaining B programs and building B programs and

00:57:44.640 --> 00:57:50.240
adding faculty to B programs and universities that never had B programs due now.

00:57:50.240 --> 00:57:56.079
And in in in I an ironic twist, it's all because B started dying.

00:57:55.940 --> 00:58:07.220
So that produced really this huge influx of money and resources, and and I just have an opportunity to to continue that.

00:58:07.220 --> 00:58:08.819
excitement at a new university.

00:58:08.819 --> 00:58:15.380
And it's going it's going to be a great opportunity for us with all of my love and appreciation for all that I've been able to do here at UF.

00:58:15.720 --> 00:58:20.920
Before anybody panics, two bees in a podcast will continue, correct, Amy?

00:58:20.920 --> 00:58:21.640
That is correct.

00:58:21.640 --> 00:58:25.079
Well it'll just be co-branded by the University of Florida, University of Georgia.

00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:26.200
That's mine and Amy's plan.

00:58:26.200 --> 00:58:27.640
Well Amy and I love working together.

00:58:27.640 --> 00:58:29.079
She's fantastic and

00:58:29.200 --> 00:58:34.480
I I just see it being amplified and not reduced in in my new capacity at UGA.

00:58:34.480 --> 00:58:36.800
I didn't want to set off a frenzy of people.

00:58:37.200 --> 00:58:41.520
People have been asking us, but we hope that it will be maybe

00:58:41.440 --> 00:58:44.320
Not business as usual, but even better business maybe.

00:58:49.020 --> 00:58:59.099
forward to talking to you again in not so far future, not as long as it took us to get you back this time to find out how things are going in Georgia and uh look forward to talking to you again.

00:58:59.180 --> 00:59:00.540
Hey it's been my pleasure.

00:59:00.540 --> 00:59:03.500
I love honeybees and beekeeping so to all of your listeners I just

00:59:03.859 --> 00:59:05.540
Wish you happy beekeeping.

00:59:05.540 --> 00:59:06.980
Thank you so much.

00:59:07.940 --> 00:59:09.859
Honey bees in the ground?

00:59:09.859 --> 00:59:11.540
Boy oh boy.

00:59:11.780 --> 00:59:12.099
That

00:59:12.280 --> 00:59:13.320
That is gonna be fun.

00:59:13.320 --> 00:59:17.160
How are you gonna design hives that mimic the ground?

00:59:17.160 --> 00:59:19.640
What kind of top is it a top bar hive?

00:59:19.640 --> 00:59:22.040
Is it is it Langstroth approved?

00:59:22.040 --> 00:59:24.119
It is uh you appreciate

00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:27.680
the natural colony and don't mess with it hive.

00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:30.480
Had you heard that before?

00:59:30.720 --> 00:59:32.800
The honeybees nesting in the ground?

00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:34.240
I'd heard that it could happen.

00:59:34.240 --> 00:59:41.359
I d I did not know it was that prevalent and it wasn't until I looked at the paper and it wasn't a small number.

00:59:41.359 --> 00:59:42.799
It was a a a smaller

00:59:42.859 --> 00:59:47.420
it wasn't the majority of nests, but it was it wasn't it wasn't like a oops this happened.

00:59:47.500 --> 00:59:49.660
It was it was pretty pretty frequent.

00:59:49.660 --> 00:59:51.579
But I love I love how Dr.

00:59:51.579 --> 00:59:53.900
Ellis was able to put everything into

00:59:54.359 --> 01:00:02.680
you know, perspective and he immediately said, Maybe it's because we saw so many because there weren't a lot of trees available, you know, so pretty interesting to

01:00:03.120 --> 01:00:11.840
One, hear about the prevalence, and then two, the hypothesis of of maybe why that number is higher, but the the truth is I think they don't know yet.

01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:12.160
So

01:00:12.460 --> 01:00:13.500
That's exciting.

01:00:13.500 --> 01:00:21.180
Maybe just like they are in their flower selection, they are the same in their home selection as that they're opportunists.

01:00:21.180 --> 01:00:26.060
They will go to corn if they have to for some pollen, but it's not maybe a great choice.

01:00:26.060 --> 01:00:26.380
But

01:00:26.620 --> 01:00:27.340
Who knows?

01:00:27.340 --> 01:00:28.060
Who knows?

01:00:28.060 --> 01:00:35.260
You have to be careful because in Minnesota when everybody tells you that they have bees on the ground, you know, we o automatically are like, Yeah, those are wasps.

01:00:35.260 --> 01:00:41.260
So But I think we're still safe in Minnesota, just not in in in other parts of the world.

01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:44.080
So I shouldn't be building swarm traps by digging a hole in the ground?

01:00:44.080 --> 01:00:46.960
I wouldn't go there, especially where you live quite yet.

01:00:47.120 --> 01:00:48.240
It sounds a little

01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:50.000
wet and uncomfortable.

01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:51.359
Alright, let me write that down.

01:00:51.359 --> 01:00:52.000
Write that down.

01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:52.880
There you go.

01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:54.559
But you know, wasn't that fun though?

01:00:54.559 --> 01:01:00.640
I feel like I'm a little smarter because we got to ask some great questions and get some even better answers.

01:01:00.640 --> 01:01:03.039
So that was a great hour.

01:01:03.099 --> 01:01:07.180
And that about wraps it up for this episode of Beekeeping Today.

01:01:07.180 --> 01:01:12.540
Before we go, be sure to follow us and leave us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts.

01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:14.760
or wherever you stream the show.

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Even better, write a quick review to help other beekeepers discover what you enjoy.

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You can get there directly from our website by clicking on the reviews tab on the top of any page.

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We want to thank Better

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B, our presenting sponsor, for their ongoing support of the podcast.

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We also appreciate our longtime sponsors, Global Patties, Strong Microbials, and Northern Bee Books for their support in bringing you each week's episode.

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And most importantly, thank you for the next one.

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for listening and spending time with us.

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If you have any questions or feedback, just head over to our website and drop us a note.

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We'd love to hear from you.

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Thanks again everybody

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Then we're allowed to see it.