The State of Honey Bee Health: A Tri-States Expert Panel (397)

WEBVTT

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Hi, this is Shane Davis from Bluenville, Arkansas, and I have uh 15 hives and first time at the Honey Bee Expo and just wanted to say uh welcome to beekeeping today.

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Welcome to Beekeeping Today podcast presented by Betterbee, your source for beekeeping news, information, and entertainment.

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I'm Jeff Ott.

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And I'm Becky Masterman.

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Thank you, Shane Davis, down there in Arkansas for that great opening.

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From the North American Honey Bee Expo way back in January.

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We still have a few more openings from North American honey bee Expo.

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To use.

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This is fantastic.

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I like it.

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Wow, they really gotten us through most of the year, along with the Midwest honey bee Expo.

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Do we have any of those left?

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Yes, we have a couple more of those coming up.

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And

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Uh just recently we used our uh one from the Tri-States and Minnesota State Beekeepers meeting too.

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Ah North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota.

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You know about that meeting, don't ya?

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I know a lot about that meeting.

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Yes, yes.

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It was so nice to have you at that meeting, Jeff.

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It was really nice to be able to see you in person, even if I was a little busy throughout that

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It was over three days, but about two full days of programming.

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Yeah.

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It was really fun and a great group of people and beekeepers there that I got to meet and rub shoulders with and listen to.

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And this episode today

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comes from that meeting.

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We put ourselves to work because we always like to have a panel.

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Panels are great at meetings because then you really get that exchange of ideas.

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You are able to take advantage of

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people with different backgrounds answering the same questions so you have multiple pers perspectives and so you know who moderates a panel better than you and me?

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Wait, is that should I say that?

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No, I actually I kinda like that.

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I like the sound of that.

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Uh anybody who wants a panel discussion moderator, uh give Becky one a call.

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Right

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Panels are my favorite.

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I've always I've always loved doing live panels at conferences just because it's it's usually it's it's just a great time because the audience can actually add

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Ask questions so they can get a little bit deeper into the material.

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Usually somebody makes you laugh at some point during the panel discussion, so

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It's a good experience.

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Well, this was a very fun panel discussion we have coming up and we recorded it was on current bee health issues and the perspective of our panelists.

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And in that panel we had Randy Oliver

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Rogan Tokash, Katie Lee, and Jackie Park Burris.

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Jackie Park Burris.

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Who or Jackie is as

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You know how at a meeting Randy Oliver's is always really sought after?

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Well, the number of times I had people say to me, Oh, I can't believe Jackie Park Burris is here.

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This is amazing.

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She is so well known for her queen operation and her knowledge and honestly her communication.

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So it was it was great to have her as part of our panel.

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Absolutely.

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I was very pleased to meet her in person and look forward to having her on as a guest one-to-one here in the future sometime.

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With that as a preamble, let's get into this panel discussion with our four experts.

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Hi everybody.

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My name is Becky Masterman.

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I'm with Jeff Ott, my co-host for Beekeeping Today podcast.

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This is a test to see if the podcast gets better if there's alcohol involved.

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So feel free to keep getting drinks, because I think it does.

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And then also there's a little bit of food left if you still want to eat.

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That's not being recorded, is it?

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Shoot.

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It's all being recorded.

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Oops, okay.

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I was waiting for the intro music to come in.

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But everybody, welcome to Beekeeping Today Podcast.

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This is being recorded and edited, and it'll be on a later episode on Beekeeping Today Podcast.

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The topic today, we're gonna and welcome all of our guests listening both here in uh in Fargo and also those listening at home or wherever you happen to be listening

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So what we're going to discuss tonight with our great panel is the state of the health of the U.

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S.

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honey bees.

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So what we're going to talk with the panelists here, and we're going to just talk about just their feelings about honey bee health this year and going forward.

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So what we would like to do now, we're gonna hand just hand this mic down and just for our audience introduce yourself and just do a quick intro of your background with bees and what you're doing with bees and then just hand the mic off.

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I'm Jackie Park Burris.

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I am a second generation queen breeder.

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I've been involved in the bee industry and working

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with CSBA for 30 plus years.

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CSBA is the California State Beekeepers Association.

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Thank you, Katie.

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My name is Katie Lee.

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I work at the University of Minnesota.

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I'm the Apiculture Extension Educator, which means I get to do education with honey bees.

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I'm also a co-coordinator of a USDA-funded granting program called SARE, Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education.

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I've in honey bees doing research and education for a bit more than 20 years.

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Uh I'm Rogan Tokash.

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I'm probably the least qualified to be on this panel, I think, but uh no.

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I'm uh assistant professor for North Dakota City

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State University.

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I just started last year actually.

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Uh actually a couple weeks ago I just had my one-year anniversary on my start date.

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So I'm really excited to be up in North Dakota

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I do honey bee research and extension, and so I really love working with doing applied research for uh North Dakota beekeepers.

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I'm Randy Oliver.

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I've kept bees for most of my life.

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Um I'm also got a background in etymology and um I translate the science into uh

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English for beekeepers and have I have a website uh of that and I do a lot of research um when beekeepers ask me beekeepers ask me questions

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If I can't find an answer, a legitimate answer in the literature, I will either try to get somebody else, fund somebody else to do it, or run the research myself.

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And you'll see like tomorrow.

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Small scale uh research I do all the time

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Scientificbeekeeping.

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com in case you don't know the website, which I'm guessing most of you do.

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Thank you everybody.

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This is a fantastic panel.

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I think you could just solve all the honey bee health problems

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The four of you working together.

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I would like I'd like to start by asking who wants to give us uh their opinion on the state of honey bee health right now in the US?

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Who's not shy?

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That's right.

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We're in a transition period.

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Uh we got we've had a number of parasites invade during my beekeeping career.

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uh chalkboot came in, then uh we got uh tracheomite came in, wiped out 70% of the hives.

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But luckily the bees had within their genome uh enough variants to deal with trachomite on their own

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And then when true uh Burroa came in, uh thought that was going to be easy for them, and it hasn't been.

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And we beekeepers slowed the process of ev evolution way down.

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by having effective mitocytes.

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We got behind uh behind the ball as far as to uh breeding for resistant stock

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Now that amitraz is failing, worldwide beekeepers are making a big transition, shifting two main things to the organic mitocides

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And a big shift towards sexual breeding, seriously, for mite resistance, which is gaining traction throughout the world.

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We're also getting some other uh we also have two big invasive species banging on us, the yellow-legged hornet, uh, which can be devastating in areas.

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I'll show some a photograph or movie tomorrow about that

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and um trobal elaps banging on the door.

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Rogan can talk a lot more about that.

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But we're also making progress on understanding some of the things with the virus system with Queens right now that we

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were not understanding why we were having so many queen losses.

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And now we're starting to see some of that as with a better understanding of uh viruses.

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So we're in a dynamic state right now and any time an industry is in a dynamic state that means there's gonna be a bunch of losers and there's gonna be a bunch of winners.

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Okay?

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So you can choose which side you're gonna be on.

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Okay, I've probably been at this longer than all of these other folks here sitting here with me, and I've seen our industry

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go through all these ups and downs and I have friends now that are beekeeping that I keep telling them, hang on, it will get better.

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It always does

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And we learned, you know, I remember as a child my mom and dad coming home from meetings and saying, there's two mites coming after us and they're gonna be terrible when they get here and boom the trachea might hit us and boom the virola might hit us.

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And somehow or another we survived because beekeepers, real beekeepers, are dug in and they will preserve.

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their need to do this because we love our bees so much.

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So it's been very helpful to work with scientists like

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I know Marlett has worked with our family extensively and we've gained from all of that.

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We've learned, we're always trying to do better.

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We're bringing in

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Some of our scientists are rock stars.

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Some of a applied research that we get, that's why we've kind of picked out some of our rock star scientists that do applied stuff that can help us

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And as beekeepers, we need to keep paying attention to them because they may not solve all your problems, but if you keep going and you keep listening to them and take little bits from each one of them, pretty soon

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the decisions that you make in your outfit will benefit from the education you get from coming to these meetings and learning stuff.

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A lot of times you feel like it was a waste of time, but you always come to these conventions.

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You never really learn what you came for, but you always learn something to go home with.

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So you need to show up.

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You need to talk.

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I can remember my dad when he was president of the CSBA, you know, 50 years ago, and he said, you know, invite your neighbor over.

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We all got broken comb in our warehouse.

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Don't worry about it

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Talk about your problems.

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And like when Trachea and Viola really hit us and hit major commercial beekeeping outfits.

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The fax machines were smoking because everybody was sending their idea of what they did and what worked for them

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So they were sending their recipes to your friends and neighbors and said, don't try that.

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I killed too many bees doing that.

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Try this.

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And we all did that.

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And we preserved ourselves and made it through it.

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And our biggest problem in my view is the lack of forage that we're all facing with these numbers.

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that some beekeepers are running.

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You just can't keep enough forage in front of them.

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So I'm really glad that we do have a lot of supplement

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People working on good supplements, improved supplements, the supplements years ago, I mean, yeah, I can't even say what my dad called pollen because he didn't like it.

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You know, it was goopy and ucky and looked like something out of the baby diaper, he would say.

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So now we've got solid and we're improving that all the time.

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So thank you to all those guys who are doing the research to

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work on nutrition because that is in my opinion our biggest problem other than the virola which we're all trying our best to breed better bees

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but not lose what we've got.

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I know a lot of people can say they've got mite resistant bees, but can that can that hive m bring in a crop of honey?

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Can it have a full box of bees when it hits the almonds

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Sorry guys.

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I think we had uh some really good coverage on either end.

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I'm kind of curious with the two of you because you've had different I'm talking about Kitty and Rogan.

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You've had different

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Amounts of time in the industry.

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What have you seen changed in the sense uh are things getting better or are things getting worse for your own personal timelines?

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Uh better or worse.

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So I think certain things are definitely getting better.

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I think one of the really cool things that has kind of come up in the last few years

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Especially like are the communities of beekeeping, which Jackie was talking about a bit, like people are talking with each other more, they're reading papers more, they're going out and seeking information more.

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I think like there's a challenge with kind of sifting through some of it, but because there's so many people interested in this and working on it, there's some really cool technologies that are coming out.

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Um that I'm really I'm excited to see how they work.

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Um I think one of the things I think that has felt more challenging lately is the state of

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the actual economic health of the industry, which I think is the scarier, like the scary part of this.

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Like

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I don't know, like it I'm more hopeful about kind of the state of the bees like in moving forward, although we still get these crazy losses, which are awful.

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Um but the economic part of it, the honey prices, like people talking about going out of business that I've known for like

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Two decades.

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That's that's one of the parts that I'm really scared about.

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Like, and it is, it's obviously always tied overall to the health of the bees and how the bees are doing.

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Uh our system, um, yeah, there's there's something, as Randy was saying, it does seem to be a really dynamic time with how this is gonna kind of shake out with everything

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So, yeah, I obviously um I came in well after CCD to my beekeeping experience.

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I started keeping bees about probably 2010, so and I really didn't get into commercial beekeeping until I had a summer internship in like 2019.

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So I've really only

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been experiencing the commercial side of things uh for the past probably six or seven years really.

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But I think some of the biggest kind of changes that I've seen is really the implementation of so many different

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Especially varill mite management strategies, you know, talking with beekeepers.

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Obviously the vral mite's a huge, huge issue.

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And it used to be that you could, you know, come to North Dakota, you could get your treatments on before supers and then you could take them off and get your treatments and you didn't

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really have to worry about it near as much.

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Now with the viruses being as bad as they are and you're trying to constantly catch up because of the amatraz resistance that you're seeing.

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You're having to turn to beekeepers.

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I have a tough time going around the state and finding a beekeeper in North Dakota that doesn't have something on their colonies when they have supers on because they just can't catch up to the mite

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So I think that's one of the things that's been a really big struggle for some of these beekeepers is making sure that they keep their mites low, you know, going into those sheds before they take them to almonds in the future.

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So I think that's one of the biggest changes that I've really seen just in the recent kind of year.

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But then also, you know, economics like Katie kind of just mentioned with beekeeping is that we have seen uh

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You know, I go around the state and I don't talk to a lot of people that are kind of my age.

00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:05.440
It's a lot of beekeepers that are more transitioning a little bit on their way out.

00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:06.000
And so

00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:13.440
It is trying to get that new generation and I do like to see because there are a few really awesome beekeepers in North Dakota that are just getting into it.

00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:17.280
So it's really cool to see kind of the young and innovative side of things

00:18:16.800 --> 00:18:23.440
But one of the favorite things that I really have just going around and talking with different beekeepers is I learn so much from them.

00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:29.920
And so that's one of the things that I love working with commercial beekeepers about is that they're always willing to try something new

00:18:29.580 --> 00:18:33.100
and really push those boundaries because they're working to find solutions.

00:18:33.100 --> 00:18:34.620
You know, this is their livelihood.

00:18:34.620 --> 00:18:39.580
So they're really trying to make sure that they can figure out what's right and what's going to work within their operation.

00:18:39.580 --> 00:18:43.820
And I just love working with beekeepers who are willing to do that and work with me on that.

00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:44.320
Thank you.

00:18:44.320 --> 00:18:53.039
So as you look back at say let's say the last year and you're thinking about honey bee health, what is going on that gives you hope?

00:18:52.820 --> 00:18:58.340
for the state of not the economics and also the honey bee health specifically.

00:18:58.340 --> 00:19:05.460
But what is what is the interaction between uh new treatments, new uh management approaches

00:19:05.600 --> 00:19:13.200
Research that can be brought into the bee yard, what is giving you hopes for the next 24 months

00:19:13.060 --> 00:19:17.860
As a beekeeper, I love working with the scientists for a couple reasons.

00:19:17.860 --> 00:19:22.500
One, I like to know what you're thinking, and one I'd like to direct you in a different direction.

00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:25.299
Because sometimes you guys go off on your tangent.

00:19:25.299 --> 00:19:27.059
It's like that isn't gonna be helpful.

00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:28.260
Come back here.

00:19:28.260 --> 00:19:30.900
And so it's very good to work with that.

00:19:30.900 --> 00:19:31.220
Um

00:19:31.860 --> 00:19:37.059
It's always hopeful when you love bees like we all do in this room, it we're gonna make it work.

00:19:37.059 --> 00:19:41.299
We're gonna, you know, put our heads down and keep working until it comes

00:19:41.260 --> 00:19:55.260
If you got into this business just to make money, you're probably gone by now because it you know you love those bees and you gotta keep them alive and you borrow money from the bank to make sure you can have them fed if you're worried about it or whatever

00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:56.760
You're gonna keep trying.

00:19:56.760 --> 00:20:03.080
Um we have a lot more opportunities for treatments because these guys have been working.

00:20:03.080 --> 00:20:09.880
You're throwing a lot of stuff at us where we used to have one or two tools in the box, we now have choices.

00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:11.880
And we can rotate those choices.

00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:19.000
Of course, we'd like better choices, but that's coming, I feel a real push from

00:20:19.919 --> 00:20:28.480
the scientist and the begivers working together to get more things on the table and we're not shy about telling you that crap don't work.

00:20:28.260 --> 00:20:35.299
You know, we need better stuff and you guys keep trying harder because we are willing to work together.

00:20:35.299 --> 00:20:38.500
So that's I see that as being extremely important.

00:20:38.500 --> 00:20:42.980
We gotta keep working together um and talking to each other.

00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:48.560
One thing that's of concern is the shutting down of the USDA bee lab.

00:20:48.560 --> 00:20:53.920
And there's applied research and there's also basic research

00:20:53.660 --> 00:20:59.020
And they were very good at basic research, kind of so-so on applied research.

00:20:59.020 --> 00:21:05.820
I'm hoping maybe they'll get that message and uh whatever reformation we have of the V Lab that they will push

00:21:05.740 --> 00:21:16.780
towards more applied research, not to give up all basic research, because a basic research then later often leads to applied research or tells you not to go down that path.

00:21:16.780 --> 00:21:18.220
There's there's nothing there.

00:21:18.220 --> 00:21:20.460
Um but we need both of those.

00:21:20.340 --> 00:21:29.620
we're gonna lose a whole lot of wisdom and learned experience from uh people who've been in uh bee scientists for many, many years

00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:33.080
And that's really tough when we lose that by shutting down a lab.

00:21:33.080 --> 00:21:36.360
They're not willing to move to Fargo.

00:21:36.360 --> 00:21:39.240
So that's going to be a tough one.

00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:40.840
But on the other hand, um

00:21:41.419 --> 00:21:44.940
And Jackie said something really important, the word rotation.

00:21:45.419 --> 00:21:50.860
Because beekeepers are doing the same damn thing that they've done for years.

00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.600
I say, hey, these oxalic acid pads work really well.

00:21:53.600 --> 00:21:56.560
And the first thing they say is, great, can I keep my hive all year long?

00:21:56.560 --> 00:22:00.560
That's what and this has been the same thing with every treatment that's come out

00:22:00.660 --> 00:22:05.540
A treatment comes out and beekeeper is great, I will use it year-round in my hive.

00:22:05.540 --> 00:22:09.540
And what you're doing then is you're breeding for mites that are resistant to that treatment.

00:22:09.540 --> 00:22:12.100
And we shoot ourselves in the foot.

00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:12.840
every single time.

00:22:12.840 --> 00:22:16.600
I'm hoping that we are learning to start rotating treatments.

00:22:16.600 --> 00:22:22.360
Again, as we're making long term view, is eventually we'll be keeping bees that don't need any treatments at all.

00:22:22.360 --> 00:22:23.720
I don't know that any of us are

00:22:24.300 --> 00:22:28.140
commercially are there yet and I completely agree with Jackie.

00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:33.660
One of the reasons is that up until recently much of the research on breeding focused on

00:22:33.940 --> 00:22:40.740
Might resistance as opposed to a bee that people would want to buy and use in their operations that are productive.

00:22:40.740 --> 00:22:43.779
And I think they're getting the message on that doesn't take off.

00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:53.240
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00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:55.720
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I think we're gonna turn it over.

00:24:26.220 --> 00:24:37.100
to you for some audience questions because we've got a great panel here and a lot of information that I bet they're going to be generous and share.

00:24:37.100 --> 00:24:40.140
So do we have some questions from the audience?

00:24:39.840 --> 00:24:42.000
Oh, there's gotta be something.

00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:44.720
We're gonna put you on notice.

00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:51.200
We're hearing the lot in the last couple years about uh honey bee nutrition that's become the area of focus.

00:24:50.760 --> 00:24:55.799
I was just at uh the Colosse meeting uh in Washington State not too long ago.

00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:59.080
Can we talk a little bit about honeybean nutrition and what's the latest

00:24:59.320 --> 00:25:07.800
that you're seeing that is valuable that would be useful for uh for all beekeepers but regardless of size and uh of their operation.

00:25:07.560 --> 00:25:08.520
It's your turn.

00:25:08.520 --> 00:25:08.920
Me?

00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:09.320
Yeah.

00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:11.720
Okay.

00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:18.600
Well I don't uh specifically do as much honey bee nutritional work as I would hopefully potentially like to do in the future.

00:25:18.600 --> 00:25:19.800
There are a lot of other

00:25:20.040 --> 00:25:21.720
Very qualified researchers.

00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:28.600
Off the top of my head, of course, Priya out at Washington State and Pierre Lau down at USDA Stoneville.

00:25:28.560 --> 00:25:37.680
Um, I guess one of the things that's really exciting for nutritionally wise at least is the innovation of some of these new things that are coming to market.

00:25:37.460 --> 00:25:42.100
um some of these new pollen supplements that are being able that beekeepers are using.

00:25:42.340 --> 00:25:47.300
I know that there's one uh Apex by name that they've been able to have bees

00:25:47.460 --> 00:25:51.460
rear brewed in essentially cages be using just that apex pollen.

00:25:51.460 --> 00:25:58.580
And so using those supplements that are, you know, maybe a little bit better than some of these other things that we've been having to use in the past is a potential

00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:06.560
really great innovation that could really push us into nutritionally being a little bit more successful with beekeeping.

00:26:06.660 --> 00:26:13.460
But other than that, you know, it's really being able to find those great spaces in the US that have that nutrition.

00:26:13.460 --> 00:26:21.460
And of course, we're sometimes spoiled in North Dakota, but we also have to deal with a lot of neighbors in North Dakota because we have so many beekeepers in the area.

00:26:21.460 --> 00:26:27.620
And so I think that's a real big challenge of beekeepers is just the lack of space and the lack of quality forage area.

00:26:27.620 --> 00:26:35.380
Um, you know, in South Dakota and Montana where you're a little bit more limited because of your limit laws where you can't have apiaries within a certain radius of other

00:26:35.460 --> 00:26:39.700
Uh apiaries that helps you be a little bit more spaced out from other beekeepers.

00:26:39.700 --> 00:26:45.620
You get into North Dakota and it's a little bit more like the wild, wild west, and so there's a real big competition.

00:26:45.460 --> 00:26:47.540
for some of those great spots in North Dakota.

00:26:47.540 --> 00:26:56.580
So I think that's one of the challenges that beekeepers are really facing that even in an area like North Dakota, which is what some people say is the last great frontier for honey production

00:26:56.460 --> 00:27:03.580
You're not seeing quite as great returns on honey production because you have so much competition with some of these other beekeepers because it's just so plentiful.

00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:05.980
It's not just the competition.

00:27:05.919 --> 00:27:13.360
It's the uh it's changing the landscape with the monocultures now and the lack of regenerative farming and the lack of pasture.

00:27:13.360 --> 00:27:16.559
I was talking about that with John Miller driving over here

00:27:16.540 --> 00:27:25.660
that back in the day when it was a whole bunch of 35 cow dairy farms, there was pasture stuff blooming all during the season, a wide diversity.

00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:29.600
I took photographs out of the window of the airplane coming into Fargo here.

00:27:29.600 --> 00:27:38.880
I go, my God, it looks like a lawn, which means you're gonna have maybe two monocultures which each have a flash bloom and there's nothing else for the bees to eat the rest of the year

00:27:38.919 --> 00:27:52.600
So one of the things the article I'm working on right now is to get our industry to push the next farm bill for more money towards regenerative farming, more money towards a w rewarding beekeepers or n I'm sorry, landowners

00:27:52.460 --> 00:27:59.100
to start bringing livestock back and doing regenerative pasture which would supply uh supply uh forage.

00:27:59.100 --> 00:28:01.340
The other thing, my own county

00:28:01.360 --> 00:28:07.360
uh over in uh Northern California, uh I sat down and realized we were being overstocked.

00:28:07.360 --> 00:28:09.679
We were over the carrying capacity.

00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:21.279
of our county and when a commercial beekeeper would come in from uh down the valley where there was no food for alma pollination and plop down five hundred hives in an area

00:28:21.260 --> 00:28:24.780
All the hobby beekeepers would no longer make a drop of honey.

00:28:24.780 --> 00:28:31.500
So we realized we were going to be destroyed, so we got together, we beekeepers, we approached the Board of Supervisors.

00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:37.080
and said, we this may surprise you, but we're an agricultural group asking you to regulate us.

00:28:37.080 --> 00:28:38.920
And we will write the ordinance.

00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:42.280
I uh the Ag Commissioner and I wrote the ordinance together

00:28:41.900 --> 00:28:43.420
And we limited it.

00:28:43.420 --> 00:28:54.540
And we did it by making the commercial beekeepers, making it so that the commercial registrations protected the hobby beekeepers and the native pollinators.

00:28:54.140 --> 00:29:02.460
so that there was no pushback against the commercial guys because we benefited by uh we had limits only for the commercial guys.

00:29:02.260 --> 00:29:07.140
And that means that the hobbyists and the native meat could fit in between the mercial g commercial guys.

00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:13.220
Now my sons hate me for it because there are no more commercial sites in my county.

00:29:13.220 --> 00:29:17.059
There's no one's gonna be able to come in until somebody dies.

00:29:16.260 --> 00:29:17.380
and takes that over.

00:29:17.380 --> 00:29:23.780
But we are now back to curing capacity and people are making everybody's making honey in our county again

00:29:24.320 --> 00:29:34.080
States like uh North Dakota may have to start looking at ordinances just as this because it um it's called the Tragedy of the Commons and it's you know with any kind of livestock

00:29:34.260 --> 00:29:39.620
You get that point where you put one more cow in that pasture and then all the cattle suffer because there's not enough food.

00:29:39.620 --> 00:29:44.020
You want to keep your stocking density below that point.

00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:48.460
I think some of us want to know how you calculated carrying capacity.

00:29:48.620 --> 00:29:52.140
I analyze every study, every published uh

00:29:52.640 --> 00:30:01.280
what on a natural situation where no beekeepers were involved, what the natural population of free-living honey bees was in different environments.

00:30:01.280 --> 00:30:03.200
And I haven't published it yet.

00:30:04.060 --> 00:30:05.020
Maybe it's really interested.

00:30:05.020 --> 00:30:08.620
I've got a PowerPoint uh on it I've I've given elsewhere.

00:30:08.620 --> 00:30:12.620
Um and you look at so it's not for any one area.

00:30:12.360 --> 00:30:17.240
It has to be for the type of ecosystem what that carrying capacity is.

00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:22.440
And then we validated it just from our own experience in our own county, because we have some areas

00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:31.120
where we f we map out our yards, us per we have about 55 yards of bees, just my sons and I do, in areas where they're tied together.

00:30:30.860 --> 00:30:33.019
We don't make any honey in those yards.

00:30:33.019 --> 00:30:34.940
Where they're spread out more, we make honey.

00:30:34.940 --> 00:30:39.580
So we could double check those calculations and they fit right in.

00:30:39.340 --> 00:30:42.539
I would like to second that about Apex Poland.

00:30:42.539 --> 00:30:46.940
You guys I that's about to hit the market and those people have done

00:30:47.560 --> 00:31:01.960
a great deal of research and tried their best to spend time and energy and dollars that none of us could ever afford to do to get us a supplement that will help your bees grow.

00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:07.340
And it's always, you know, beekeepers look at it as I threw in so many pounds and they ate so many pounds.

00:31:07.340 --> 00:31:08.860
And that's not the end of it.

00:31:08.860 --> 00:31:11.500
The end of it, those of us that are really in our bees

00:31:12.019 --> 00:31:20.740
looking at it, it's how much growth you got out of what they did eat and understanding the hive and the nurse bees.

00:31:21.019 --> 00:31:23.179
are the consumers of that.

00:31:23.179 --> 00:31:25.419
And so all of that goes together.

00:31:25.419 --> 00:31:27.500
These people have done a lot of research at it.

00:31:27.500 --> 00:31:31.820
So if it comes across to you, I hope that you'll at least give it a shot.

00:31:31.620 --> 00:31:38.260
Um, 'cause it's eg again, like I said, I totally believe that nutrition is our big problem.

00:31:38.260 --> 00:31:46.260
And like, you know, Randy's talking about ordinances, our county came to us up there in Shasta County, which is almost to Oregon.

00:31:46.060 --> 00:31:56.780
It's been about 15 years ago and they said we need to help you guys because we've got a lot of out-of-state beekeepers coming to stage their bees for the almonds and they're going to eat you alive

00:31:56.600 --> 00:32:01.240
and it also causes public nuisance and makes people not like bees.

00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:11.480
So you really do need a reasonable amount of discussion with your county folks and we all get along with them so that's helpful.

00:32:10.760 --> 00:32:12.840
Yeah, so back to that testing.

00:32:12.840 --> 00:32:18.200
Back in the 60s, uh USDA lab at Tucson had a guy named Elton Herbert Jr.

00:32:18.280 --> 00:32:22.440
, a nutritionist, and he uh developed he tested

00:32:22.540 --> 00:32:28.300
by making a bunch of cages and he has a cage size how much you need to put nucleus columns in there.

00:32:28.300 --> 00:32:31.980
And you need to do testing, you need a bank of cages

00:32:32.040 --> 00:32:37.080
that you can put uh nucleus colonies in and feed them solely artificial diets.

00:32:37.080 --> 00:32:42.200
I've been working with trying with some other USDA researchers for the last ten years.

00:32:41.940 --> 00:32:49.380
for them to get funding and set that up at one of the US Day labs because that's the kind of stuff that they could do impartially

00:32:49.820 --> 00:32:53.500
Uh but I haven't had luck getting one of them to actually do it.

00:32:53.500 --> 00:32:54.540
I may have to set one up.

00:32:54.540 --> 00:32:56.700
I've been threatening for years to it myself.

00:32:56.700 --> 00:32:57.660
But that's what we need.

00:32:57.660 --> 00:32:59.900
You need to have a whole bunch of cages

00:32:59.860 --> 00:33:00.740
All identical.

00:33:00.740 --> 00:33:07.700
They can put a bunch of nucs in, feed them diet, and see if you can rear bees for more than two brood cycles on.

00:33:07.900 --> 00:33:11.340
'Cause you can get one boot cycle on pretty much any police up.

00:33:11.340 --> 00:33:15.900
Getting a second one is tougher and the third one, unless it's nutritionally complete, does not happen.

00:33:15.900 --> 00:33:19.900
So it's not rocket science, just a matter of somebody building a bunch of those cages

00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:29.100
And that's the kind of applied research that the USDA is set up to do if we can just twist their arm into doing that applied research.

00:33:28.840 --> 00:33:32.760
Why don't you also just share your name to maybe where you're from?

00:33:32.840 --> 00:33:35.640
Uh my name is Eric, I'm coming here at Fargo.

00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:42.760
So uh if we're talking about the state of honey bee health, uh I haven't heard pesticides talked about at all.

00:33:42.760 --> 00:33:43.400
Um I've been

00:33:44.080 --> 00:33:55.600
told by some really big commercial beekeepers here in North Dakota that you know neonics are devastating on the west side of the state and then I've also been told by other people not to worry about pesticides.

00:33:55.600 --> 00:33:58.559
They put their hives right beside a field of whatever crop.

00:33:58.919 --> 00:34:02.280
And uh so I've just gotten so many mixed messages about it.

00:34:02.280 --> 00:34:06.600
All of our bees are somewhat close to fields where they spray.

00:34:06.600 --> 00:34:11.159
But uh I'm just curious to know what you guys have to say about that

00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:14.279
Is anybody gonna reach for the m anybody gonna reach for the mic?

00:34:14.279 --> 00:34:15.240
Okay, Jackie.

00:34:15.240 --> 00:34:16.200
So I don't know.

00:34:16.200 --> 00:34:19.240
Maybe it's been ten, twelve years ago or something

00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:24.700
There was um some beekeepers in California and they were brothers and they each had their bees.

00:34:24.700 --> 00:34:31.820
One had 'em, you know, half a mile down the road from the other one, and they had, you know, they started complaining about pesticide

00:34:31.700 --> 00:34:37.940
And one of the brothers said, I don't know what my brother's problem is, because I'm not dying at all, and he's dying.

00:34:37.940 --> 00:34:42.339
So it all comes down to, you know, bees can take two things.

00:34:42.339 --> 00:34:44.980
You throw the third at them, they go in the toilet

00:34:44.859 --> 00:34:46.379
They can't stomach it.

00:34:46.379 --> 00:34:48.700
So did he have a higher mite level?

00:34:48.700 --> 00:34:50.379
Did with his bees more stressed?

00:34:50.379 --> 00:34:51.740
Did he have no SEMA?

00:34:51.740 --> 00:34:54.139
All of those things make it so the bees

00:34:54.620 --> 00:34:59.020
can handle some of that pesticide exposure or not handle it.

00:34:59.020 --> 00:35:01.500
And that is beekeeping.

00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:05.420
You know, there is no this is not an exact science.

00:35:05.420 --> 00:35:09.260
And no year is ever the same for us.

00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:18.119
So the carrying capacity only worked for the time he looked at it, because the carrying capacity next year might be completely different because it rained like all get out.

00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:19.280
the next year we had a drought.

00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:21.200
So we're guessing at all of it.

00:35:21.200 --> 00:35:24.320
And we're you know, we're practicing beekeeping.

00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:26.720
Yeah, I mean we were talking about nutrition too.

00:35:26.720 --> 00:35:29.680
N pesticides and nutrition go hand in hand as well.

00:35:29.680 --> 00:35:32.560
Like if they have poor nutrition, they're more susceptible to pesticides.

00:35:33.160 --> 00:35:36.920
But I mean who all in here has had a pesticide kill?

00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:45.800
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's basically like every commercial beekeeper I've ever worked with has at some point talked about having a pesticide kill

00:35:45.500 --> 00:35:57.580
Neonics in particular can be a little like more insidious because you can't necessarily tell in the field what's going on because they can have sublethal effects, which is possibly also why some of the mixed messaging is out there

00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:03.360
But I mean it you know they can they can definitely they have a proven effect on bees.

00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:04.800
They can be harmful to bees.

00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:12.560
The exposure, the dosage, whatever else that they're dealing with, the different stressors can all make that a lot more complicated to kind of untie.

00:36:12.620 --> 00:36:19.180
Uh I have to send your article on the press in two in a week on this very subject.

00:36:19.180 --> 00:36:24.060
And what I'm seeing is the number one problem that I see uh

00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:26.359
is what we're doing to our land.

00:36:26.359 --> 00:36:28.119
We're eliminating the forage.

00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:33.160
So yeah, the herbicide may not have direct toxicity to the bees.

00:36:32.859 --> 00:36:34.140
but it eliminates forage.

00:36:34.140 --> 00:36:39.740
And now that Roundup is being uh phased out because they overused it.

00:36:39.820 --> 00:36:42.220
You overuse it, you get weeds that are resistant to it.

00:36:42.220 --> 00:36:45.020
So now they're coming in with 2, 4D and dikamba

00:36:45.260 --> 00:36:55.100
which unlike Roundup are volatile and drift and not only drift onto their crops, but as um Stephen Coy is finding out, uh Richard Coy

00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:01.040
is wiping out all their uh forage crops, their uh native uh plants.

00:37:01.040 --> 00:37:02.880
So this is a huge issue.

00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:05.520
The other one is just the use of the plow.

00:37:05.240 --> 00:37:06.920
for pollinators in general.

00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:10.440
When you plow a field, you eliminate an entire ecosystem.

00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:14.440
You eliminate all the nesting sites for the ground nesting bees.

00:37:14.080 --> 00:37:26.960
you eliminate all the uh the plants that they required on, and you bring it back, put it in a monocrop, and you round up all your roads so there's no h there's no hedgerows anymore, there ain't nothing there for those

00:37:27.160 --> 00:37:30.280
uh pollinators to eat throughout the season.

00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:35.000
So it's easy to blame pesticides, but it's more just how your land use

00:37:35.520 --> 00:37:36.000
is.

00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:37.599
And I gave an example.

00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:46.880
Um I reviewed the most recent literature on the new index and the seed treatments was just insane where farmers are buying their seed every year

00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:54.120
and using unnecessary seed treatment because it's cheaper for them to do that and the pesticide companies of course push that.

00:37:54.120 --> 00:37:55.880
You are we are getting buildup

00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:57.160
in the soils of them.

00:37:57.160 --> 00:37:58.440
They do reach an equilibrium.

00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:03.000
It doesn't it's not in the they I've done seen the equilibrium calculations.

00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:06.920
But it means that you have the sublethal dose all the time there

00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:16.180
Now sublethal dose, you guys have all given yourselves today probably a sublethal dose of a toxic alkaloid, caffeine.

00:38:16.020 --> 00:38:16.660
Okay?

00:38:16.660 --> 00:38:22.180
Now if you drank 30 cups of coffee at one time, you wouldn't be here right now.

00:38:22.180 --> 00:38:25.460
But you know, understand a sub-netal dose, so let's just say

00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:28.520
Your bees is having a cup of coffee in the morning or having take up coffee in the morning.

00:38:28.520 --> 00:38:29.640
That's a new nick is.

00:38:29.799 --> 00:38:31.799
It's a stimulant, like a like caffeine.

00:38:31.799 --> 00:38:33.960
It changes their behavior.

00:38:33.720 --> 00:38:40.039
So this low these sublethal doses are uh definitely of concern.

00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:41.720
So it's about being reasonable.

00:38:41.720 --> 00:38:45.160
So I gave an example, I'm going to in this article of mine

00:38:45.160 --> 00:38:49.160
that I'm a pretty much a semi-organic gardener, have been for a long time.

00:38:49.160 --> 00:38:57.400
But I my favorite plum tree got a new armored scale insect that I could not control organically in any way

00:38:57.660 --> 00:39:09.820
and I found out, wow, a neonic treatment on that one tree, applied at the right time, in the middle of my home apiary, was able to eliminate that scale insect, okay?

00:39:09.820 --> 00:39:11.580
So you don't have to be anti

00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:18.680
Anything, you just have to be pro-judicious use of things, not overuse of things.

00:39:18.839 --> 00:39:19.640
Okay, hi.

00:39:19.640 --> 00:39:21.240
My name is Megan Mahoney.

00:39:21.240 --> 00:39:25.160
I'm a commercial bee breeder and beekeeper.

00:39:25.160 --> 00:39:26.760
But I just wanted to kind of

00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:42.160
touch base on what you all view as the future of the almonds because that seems very tied to the commercial industry and there's a lot of different accounts that are coming in.

00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:54.280
that I hear from beekeepers saying, Oh, it's gonna crash or I'm not getting paid or the almonds they don't have enough water or ah that's all you know they're every they're everything's getting replanted anyway.

00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:57.000
So I was just wondering if any of you had any of

00:39:57.359 --> 00:40:04.240
opinions, especially the California people, um, on the state of that.

00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:10.240
Megan, it's just like the bee industry.

00:40:10.240 --> 00:40:12.160
Their industry's going through ups and downs.

00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:21.400
They have been incredibly good at marketing and the beekeepers benefited because they planted more because they were incredibly good at marketing.

00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:25.079
Then we had COVID, then we had shipping issues, and then we had

00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:28.940
stums and then you know we got some political arguments going on.

00:40:28.940 --> 00:40:33.580
So, you know, almonds are the one thing that go to Asia.

00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:37.040
You know, it's not the arrow coming back, it's the arrow going there.

00:40:37.040 --> 00:40:42.160
My uncle pollinated almonds before they paid you to pollinate almonds.

00:40:41.859 --> 00:40:47.220
but his bees did so well and then it caught on and the almond industry bloomed.

00:40:47.220 --> 00:40:52.180
So it the acreage may never be as high as it was.

00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:58.059
There will always be almonds because it's such a profitable crop when the weather aligns.

00:40:58.059 --> 00:41:04.700
So I yeah, you've got to know who you're working with, you gotta plan ahead, you don't ship bees

00:41:04.940 --> 00:41:09.900
from Florida to California hoping for a contract, you have to have a signed contract.

00:41:09.900 --> 00:41:16.060
When you do that, the cost of fuel, the cost of handling of all of that, you know, we gotta be smarter

00:41:16.059 --> 00:41:21.180
There was a time there where you could just put it on the truck and somebody found a home for it.

00:41:21.180 --> 00:41:26.700
So I think the almond industry has given us a great deal.

00:41:26.300 --> 00:41:30.860
And I think we've given them a great deal also, and we have to work together.

00:41:30.860 --> 00:41:35.580
I know uh the California State Beekeepers Association is members of the

00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:43.320
Almond Alliance and we work with the Almond Board regularly on best management practices for each of us.

00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:45.880
And that has helped a lot.

00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:50.680
There were times there where we were getting a lot of spraying in the day.

00:41:50.600 --> 00:42:03.640
And now it's like politically incorrect to spray in the day, although it happens and you deal with it, but it's always been worth the risk to the beekeeper because the paycheck was worth it

00:42:03.640 --> 00:42:06.760
So they were willing to take the risk for it.

00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:09.160
I think we're gonna be fine.

00:42:09.160 --> 00:42:15.559
Yes, there will always be problems with being undercut by somebody who doesn't have a contract.

00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:17.799
And I think that some of the

00:42:18.500 --> 00:42:26.020
Technology service that's come out there has proven that we the beekeepers have done a good job over the years

00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:33.560
Well, back in 2004 I wrote to the editors of both bee journals and said, Do you guys realize we just passed a watershed moment

00:42:33.740 --> 00:42:40.700
This is the first year in history where the USB industry made more money from pollination services than from honey sales.

00:42:40.700 --> 00:42:44.620
We have just shifted from a honey producing industry to a pollination industry.

00:42:44.940 --> 00:42:48.300
We've been riding on the coattails of the almond growers.

00:42:48.580 --> 00:42:56.660
Then along came CCD and vromite issues, and it became much more expensive to produce bees.

00:42:56.840 --> 00:43:01.800
That means the growers were starting to get hurt because I started at $10 a hive.

00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:07.240
We're getting like $225 a hive now, just in the span I've been doing it.

00:43:07.099 --> 00:43:14.619
And that kind of shot us in the foot because that then incentivized the growers to talk to the plant breeders like UC Davis

00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:19.080
Hey, can you develop trees that don't need bees from pollination?

00:43:19.080 --> 00:43:21.960
And they've made some really big strides the last couple of years.

00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:24.360
Yori Zen is coming out now.

00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:33.880
And the plantings of the new orchards are telling us the future that there's going to be a lot less demand for bees in the almonds.

00:43:33.740 --> 00:43:36.060
um unless we can get the price down.

00:43:36.060 --> 00:43:44.380
So the more successful we are at keeping bees without putting a whole lot of money into that, the more of a market we'll have there.

00:43:44.380 --> 00:43:48.140
But if our price keep we can't our price can't keep going up

00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:54.400
in definitely in almond polish are we're gonna just be um priced out of the out of the market.

00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:55.920
So that's the future.

00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:57.280
I've told my own sons

00:43:57.180 --> 00:44:03.820
You're doing really well in Almas right now, but I would not make your long term business plan based uh upon Almas.

00:44:03.820 --> 00:44:11.180
We have the advantage that we live not t too far from Almond Oceans, but if you're coming f if you're paying trucking fees and fuel costs from North Dakota

00:44:11.240 --> 00:44:13.720
It's gonna be uh tougher.

00:44:13.720 --> 00:44:15.560
Any other questions from the audience?

00:44:15.560 --> 00:44:16.840
We've got one more over here.

00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:18.760
Final question

00:44:18.859 --> 00:44:21.500
My name is Carlos and I'm from South Dakota.

00:44:21.900 --> 00:44:33.579
My question is with the expansion of beekeepers in the United States, it also is there a correlation in the expansion of beekeepers?

00:44:34.020 --> 00:44:43.859
keepers that are uh not commercial, that are not sideliners, that aren't at this meeting, uh and the Barola mites that go untreated.

00:44:43.859 --> 00:44:47.220
And are we fighting a losing battle?

00:44:47.220 --> 00:44:48.500
And if so, how do we

00:44:49.020 --> 00:44:54.060
get more beekeepers that aren't engaged in becoming better beekeepers?

00:44:54.060 --> 00:44:57.180
How do we get them to become better beekeepers?

00:44:57.180 --> 00:45:01.660
Uh it's going to, you know, it's a threat to the commercial guys.

00:45:01.660 --> 00:45:03.500
It's a threat to everybody else that are spending

00:45:04.099 --> 00:45:05.619
dollars every year.

00:45:05.619 --> 00:45:12.099
Uh but as more and more people become beekeepers, there's more and more beehives out there that aren't being treated.

00:45:12.099 --> 00:45:17.780
Or maybe that's just a perception, but is that a true perception or not?

00:45:18.859 --> 00:45:19.420
Katie would be the best one.

00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:21.339
Yeah, I can I can I can do this one.

00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:24.220
We teach a beginning beekeeper course.

00:45:24.700 --> 00:45:30.060
I interact a lot with beekeepers of all sizes on a regular basis.

00:45:30.060 --> 00:45:31.339
I would say

00:45:32.120 --> 00:45:33.640
In all everything I say.

00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:36.520
It d it depends probably in some cases.

00:45:36.520 --> 00:45:41.800
You know, like you do like commercial beekeepers aren't gonna be like in urban areas.

00:45:41.800 --> 00:45:44.120
Like so some of it is like overlap

00:45:44.620 --> 00:45:48.300
about where people are in like sheer numbers.

00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:55.980
Like although we are talking like, you know, there a single colony that collapses of mites can have thousands and thousands of mites in there that can spread, which

00:45:55.980 --> 00:45:57.819
Can debility be an issue.

00:45:57.819 --> 00:46:06.220
I would say when people get into it, like it really does depend on where and who they learn from about mites as well.

00:46:06.520 --> 00:46:10.040
like uh you know, and why they're getting into beekeeping as well.

00:46:10.040 --> 00:46:16.119
If they're getting into it understanding that this is an animal that they are going to need to take care of

00:46:16.340 --> 00:46:22.100
They tend to be a lot better about managing for mites and in whatever way that they do that.

00:46:22.100 --> 00:46:27.060
There are a lot of there are more and more beekeepers out there that are on a smaller scale.

00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:31.800
that are managing mites without treatments as well, which is important to some of those beekeepers too.

00:46:32.120 --> 00:46:37.880
Also treatments work well to keep mite levels down or can at least sometimes

00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:42.359
But you know, like it really I would say like it runs the gamut.

00:46:42.359 --> 00:46:46.039
Like the diversity of smaller scale beekeepers out there.

00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:48.200
You have people that are true like

00:46:48.620 --> 00:47:03.260
people that just are be havers too, you know, that aren't keeping bees actively and they just are interested in keeping colonies in the back yard for whatever reason just to watch them, just to enjoy them, because they're they're they really are an amazing animal.

00:47:03.020 --> 00:47:13.900
And but yeah, so really like a lot of I've I'm part of this um ex Apiculture Extension Educator group of America and a lot of what we talk about is like

00:47:14.220 --> 00:47:22.940
really working with people and getting good information out to people that are learning about uh good management of mites for further specific area.

00:47:22.940 --> 00:47:23.180
But

00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:27.140
Yeah, I mean I think it really does run the gamut there.

00:47:27.140 --> 00:47:27.860
Katie?

00:47:27.860 --> 00:47:28.900
Yeah, please.

00:47:28.900 --> 00:47:31.220
Luckily it's kinda self limiting

00:47:31.240 --> 00:47:38.680
it gets pretty expensive a after you cereal kill you know m your bees, you know, for four years in a row.

00:47:38.680 --> 00:47:43.480
Um so and ask go to your local bee club and say, okay

00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:48.440
How many of the newbies from five years ago are still keeping bees?

00:47:48.440 --> 00:47:51.000
My guess is going to be a very small percentage.

00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:53.000
Now, was that even before Varroa?

00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:55.720
It used to be maybe 5% before Varroa

00:47:55.960 --> 00:47:58.840
that we'd have when we kept track of our newbies.

00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:01.480
After Vroa it's even a much lower percentage.

00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:08.520
So it's self-limiting that either you learn how to keep them alive or it just gets too expensive to have them as a hobby.

00:48:08.059 --> 00:48:09.980
Thank you, thank you.

00:48:09.980 --> 00:48:14.299
Jackie, Katie, Rogan, Randy, wow, what a great panel.

00:48:14.299 --> 00:48:21.579
If you could help me thank them by giving them a really nice round of applause.

00:48:23.380 --> 00:48:27.460
And that about wraps it up for this episode of Beekeeping Today.

00:48:27.460 --> 00:48:35.059
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00:48:35.059 --> 00:48:37.299
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00:49:05.779 --> 00:49:07.380
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00:49:10.140 --> 00:49:11.500
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00:49:11.500 --> 00:49:13.500
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