Using CO2 to Fight Varroa Mites with Aakash Manaswi (398)

WEBVTT

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I'm Zach Watson.

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I'm from Alabama.

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Welcome to Beekeeping Today Podcast.

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Welcome to Beekeeping Today Podcast presented by Betterbee, your source for beekeeping news, information, and entertainment.

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I'm Jeff Ott.

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And I'm Becky Masterman.

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Today's episode is brought to you by the bee nutrition superheroes at Global Patties.

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Thank you, Zach Watson from

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Alabama for that great opening from the floor of the North American Honey Bee Expo back in January.

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Fantastic.

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Alabama.

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They're already on our map, aren't they?

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They are.

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They're on our

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Family of podcast with Dr.

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Jim Too.

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He's from Alabama.

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Oh, that's true.

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Yeah.

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Alabama's a good state.

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Well represented here on Beekeeping Today podcast.

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Becky, we have a new question that just came in.

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We do.

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And I love this question.

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This is a I'm going to read the whole thing.

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It's a long question.

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But this is from Brian Nolan.

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And Brian writes

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This is I mean it starts out great.

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It ends great too, by the way.

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Well it does, but it is it's a great question.

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We're gonna give this question some attention.

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Brian says, I live exactly twelve miles from the middle of nowhere.

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I've been using ChatGPT to discuss my hives.

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I'm a new beekeeper.

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I've been keeping bees for two years now.

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I read books, I listen to your podcasts, and I chat with ChatGPT about my bees.

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I have a swarm that I installed about a month ago that I believe is either queenless or the queen has slowed down because of the heat here.

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Currently

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90 to 100 degree days.

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I have a package arriving from strong microbials today to feed my hives during the dearth.

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I'm also feeding one-to-one syrup.

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All of this I've learned from your show and ChatGPT.

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My question is, have you used AI to discuss your bees?

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I find its answers are spot on, its suggestions are great, and recently it has offered to help look at photos I take of frames.

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It may be a new pathway for new beekeepers to learn about beekeeping.

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Sorry, book writers.

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Hey, is he talking to us?

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Wait, is he not gonna read our book?

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Maybe we shouldn't answer this.

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Well we'll have to feed it to ChatGPT.

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I love this question.

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Well I'm just gonna say it because I write monthly for bee culture and what, like two weeks ago

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I just turned in an article where I interviewed ChatGPT for my article because I am super curious about

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AI as a tool for beekeepers and what it looks like.

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So I decided to go straight to the source and it turned out to be like a two thousand word article that's going to be published in

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what it was turned in July, August, September.

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So it'll be in the September bee culture issue.

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So Brian, you're gonna have to read that, but I have other things to say too.

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Let's turn this over to you first.

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There's a lot of discussions in a lot of the online forums and moderated boards and everything else about using AI.

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whether it be chat or Gemini or Claude or any of the others.

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My belief with everything with AI is that

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Use it as a reference, but not as a sole determination of all your decision making, at least at this point.

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I mean I think we're at a point where we can turn over everything to check.

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chat or AI, but I think it does have a lot to offer and especially for those beekeepers who are isolated and without other resources.

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In this world, the thing that I know the most about I think is beekeeping.

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So it would be the thing I would go to ChatGPT the least amount of

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times in order to like actually ask a question.

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But I've found a lot of great information from AI when I have questions about things that I don't know about.

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So because of that, I actually started

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asking chat some questions about beekeeping that I actually knew the answer to.

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Or sharing pictures of things that I knew what I was looking at.

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And some of that goes into the article.

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But what I will say is that

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I've had ChatGPT apologize to me so many times when I was testing it and I would say, wait, are you sure that's the answer?

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And what about this?

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And then the

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bot will come the chat bot will come back and say, Oh, I'm so sorry.

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I actually maybe was too confident in that answer.

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And so

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So I do think it's a great tool.

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I just think there's a fine line between when it gets really confident and maybe

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will answer something definitively when it actually doesn't know the answer.

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I also found I was asking it to print a transcript of our interview word for word.

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it edited the questions it got wrong and it corrected them.

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So I had to go back in the feed and I had to pull out the questions that it answered incorrectly because I wanted the incorrect answers in the article because that was part of the

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part of the conversation that I was having with chat.

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So while I'm a hundred percent amazed with this tool, part of the problem is that you can catch its limitations

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much more easily when you're you're very knowledgeable about a subject.

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And if you're not, it might be a little bit trickier.

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And chat also did admit that it's not as good at scanning pictures as it could be.

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And I think that it's going to improve.

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But I did find that it's it's not a perfect tool, but boy is it a great tool.

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And there are other uses for it.

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I'm just going to say this.

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that I asked it for some resources to look up some funding ideas for a beekeeper who wanted to expand their business and it found grants that were active, grants accepting applications.

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And Katie Lee has said this.

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She works for SAR, which is a granting organization through the US A and they want

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people who are writing these grants to actually use AI to help them with some of the ideas bringing t ideas together and doing some of the help

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with the writing so that they everybody kind of has an equal playing field when it comes to applying for some of these grants.

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So there are definite uses for the tools.

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I 100% agree with you in using of the chat or any of the AI tools that it's almost like talking to any other beekeeper, you have to take what they tell you with a little grain of salt.

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Okay.

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Based on their knowledge and background understanding.

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If you challenge them like you'd challenge another beekeeper, ultimately I will know AI works well.

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on beekeeping questions when it comes back and tells me, well, Jeff, it depends.

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And then I know that I've reached

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Beekeeping Nirvana in the AI world.

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Because that is the true answer to any beekeeping question is that it depends.

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That's great.

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No, but it is it is interesting.

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And I before I wrote that article, I'd been thinking about it for a number of months, and I will tell you that there's not a lot out there written about

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AI and beekeeping.

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There's a little bit of information, but it's something that I think that beekeepers maybe are doing and not talking about.

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And I think it's just good to talk about because you can improve

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the tool by using it and also kind of understanding it makes you write your question very clearly too because if you're not clear

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then you're going to get the question you asked answered, not the question you needed to have answered.

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So And you can always follow up and ask, where are you getting this information?

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What are you basing this on?

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And then not only just wait for an answer to show up.

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But then follow through with looking at that reference and seeing what that reference said because the interpretation of AI of that reference may be off or maybe wrong.

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And it's just like

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Talking to another beekeeper.

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Where'd you get that information?

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Well I heard it from so and so.

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Or that's the way I've always done it.

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It's a tool

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And like every tool, be wary in how you use it, and it can be a useful tool for you.

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And I want to know where Brian lives, so when

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He gives you his address to get his free hive tool.

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You gotta tell me what twelve miles from the middle of nowhere actually is.

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Is that a postal service address, Brian, really?

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Really?

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So if you just send that tool to twelve miles from the middle of nowhere.

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Thank you, Brian, for that wonderful question.

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It leads to a lot of discussion and one whose answer will change as time goes on, I'm sure.

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We should have asked Chad to answer for us.

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That's true.

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Well Becky, coming up, the Regineron International Science and Engineering Fair is the world's largest international STEM research competition for high school students, bringing together some of the brightest young scientific minds from around the globe.

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One of this year's standout projects tackled one of Beekeeping's biggest challenges, Varroa Mites.

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We're very familiar with that.

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After the break, we will meet award-winning student researcher Aakash Manaswi.

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To learn more.

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For more than 45 years, BetterBee has proudly supported beekeepers by offering high quality, innovative products, providing outstanding customer service.

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Keepers themselves and sharing education to help beekeepers succeed.

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Whether you're just getting started,

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or a seasoned pro, BetterBee has the products and experience to help you and your bees succeed.

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Visit betterbee.

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com or call 1-800-632-3379.

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BetterBe, your partners in Better Beekeeping.

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Hey everybody, welcome back

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Sitting around this great big virtual beekeeping today podcast table, sitting down in Orlando, Florida, we have Aakash Manaswi and in

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I'm in St.

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Paul, Minnesota, Jeff.

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Do you hear you haven't changed?

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My name is Becky Masterman.

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I'm a co-host of the podcast.

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And I'm sitting in

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Olympia, Washington.

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This is a rough day, folks.

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Aakash, thank you for joining us.

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We were telling the listeners before you joined us that your brother was on last year.

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We're having you on.

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This is becoming quite a family thing.

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Next year, do you have a younger brother that we can interview next year?

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I do.

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Sister, maybe?

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Okay.

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Well thank you.

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Aakash, please tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got interested in bees, and then we'll start talking about your project.

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Yeah, so I'm a tenth grader from Orlando, Florida, and kind of my whole story about bees really takes me back around seven years ago.

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I visited a beekeeper's apiary.

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I was just a third grade elementary school student, so you can bet I was confused, had dozens of questions.

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But one of the questions that really stood out to me was when he opened up his hives, I noticed that a lot of them weren't as busy as I was thinking.

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I was thinking it would be golden full of honey, just like in Winnie the Pooh

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But what I saw was just a hive that didn't really have much buzzing.

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So when I asked him why, he told me it was because he was struggling to fight against this parasite known as the Varroa Mite

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So I asked him more about it and he told me it was this huge problem that was affecting the keepers around the world and I really started to get interested in the mite from there.

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I started doing more research into it.

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And I found out that these beekeepers only have a few effective ways to treat for these mites, but some of the issues with these mite with these treatments for the mites

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or that they're pesticides, so they do have a lot of side effects associated with them, or they're organic treatments that sometimes don't work in certain temperatures.

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So that's really where I started getting into bees.

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Do you have any beehives of your own there at your house?

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No, I unfortunately don't, so I really wanted to, but the HOA doesn't allow us to have to.

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But I do love to go to local beekeepers' apiaries, help out and just work over there.

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Wow.

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Do you have a regular group of people that you go and help?

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Because if not, you can maybe do a call out right now.

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I'm sure a lot of people would love your help.

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There's mainly three beekeepers who I've been visiting over the years and working with.

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But I recently have joined this organization.

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It's called The Hives for Heroes.

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It's basically like a veteran organization and they connect veterans, beekeepers, so they can start getting into beekeeping themselves and it's something I'm really passionate about

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that organization.

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So you started working with beekeepers or way back when and noticed that the beekeeper was talking about the problem with Varroa mites.

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I mean you're tenth grader.

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When I was in tith grade I was probably playing guitars and riding bicycles.

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Well that's what I'm doing now.

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But it's it's but you're sitting there thinking, well bees and how can I solve a problem with bees?

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Tell me, how did you get there

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I really thought that like no matter the age, no matter who I am, what my credentials are, I could maybe try and help out.

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Like I thought this was like a big issue and it was affecting a lot of people, it was affecting our food supply

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So no matter how young I am, maybe there's something I could do to help out.

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that's really what was going on in my mind.

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Were you in tenth grade or were you in ninth grade before you when you started this project?

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No, so I actually started this project going into the eighth grade

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So this is going into April.

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Yeah, so I've been doing this project for quite a while now.

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Oh my goodness.

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Okay.

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You're making us all look bad, but that's okay.

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Everybody think back to ninth grade science projects.

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Your brother had some exposure to the Regeneron International Science and Engineering Fair, and that's what the project

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ultimately led to.

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Did you start with that in mind, or did you start just exploring on your own and then say, hey, I could enter this

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into the regenerant competition.

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I really started just from this idea itself.

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I didn't ever think that this project would lead to going to ISEF.

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at the International Science Fair.

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I really had no idea.

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I'm extremely grateful for that opportunity, but I really just started this as something that is like a tool that I could develop to help eKeepers fight back against these mites.

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Let's talk about what you've been working on.

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What is your project?

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My project itself, it's basically like a lid and it goes on top of beehives to release CO2 as treatment against the Varroa mite

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Now the way this really works is it really goes on top of the beehive themselves and there's nine tubes and each of these tubes is designed to lay on all of the different frames in the beehive

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And these tubes all have holes poked through them.

00:16:17.040 --> 00:16:22.160
So they're so this lid that I developed, it's basically connected to a tank of CO2.

00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:34.120
And the CO2 is sourced from that tank, so it goes through this entire lid and it releases and sinks to the bottom of the hive from the lid I developed because CO2 is heavier than air.

00:16:33.920 --> 00:16:42.639
And the way this works really is it knocks these mites off of the body of the bees through a scientific process known as hypercapnia.

00:16:42.459 --> 00:16:45.820
And this is the acidification of the insect blood.

00:16:45.820 --> 00:16:54.940
So these mites, they're getting knocked off of the body of the bees, and this treatment dosage that I developed doesn't harm the bees itself, but it does harm the mites.

00:16:54.839 --> 00:16:59.720
My first question is how do you meter the amount of CO2 that is released?

00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:01.880
There's like a CO2 regulator.

00:17:01.880 --> 00:17:07.400
It's attached to the tank of CO2 itself and it sets the flow at two liters per minute

00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:11.039
So this regulates the amount of CO2 that actually comes out of the tank.

00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:15.199
And the concentration of CO2 in the tank is 30% carbon dioxide.

00:17:15.199 --> 00:17:17.919
And that's the best dosage that I found in the lab.

00:17:17.760 --> 00:17:21.919
So for some background, this was a three-year-long study, as I mentioned.

00:17:21.919 --> 00:17:30.480
And my first year of research what I did was I ran a lab trial where I exposed bees and mites to 10 varying concentrations of CO2

00:17:30.500 --> 00:17:33.060
And I found the best dosage was 30%.

00:17:33.060 --> 00:17:37.940
So it had the highest bee survival while also having a very strong mite knockdown.

00:17:37.940 --> 00:17:40.500
So it's kind of like the best of both worlds.

00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:45.200
Then in my second year I designed the first iteration of this lid prototype.

00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:47.600
And then in my third year, I ran a fuel truck

00:17:47.860 --> 00:17:51.299
Comparing this prototype to the pesticide alternatives.

00:17:51.299 --> 00:18:01.460
And also I looked at a bunch of bee health markers like the bee lifespan and also some cellular effects like the bee immunity, the digestive health, and also reproductive health.

00:18:01.040 --> 00:18:05.600
I have to ask, whose lab did you work with when you did these trials?

00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:08.880
I worked with three main labs in this entire process.

00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.920
So I had a mentor at 3M.

00:18:11.560 --> 00:18:14.280
And this was part of the 3M Young Sciences Challenge.

00:18:14.280 --> 00:18:21.880
So I was basically paired with a mentor from 3M and then also I worked with another mentor from the USDA.

00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:25.080
And then I also worked at the University of Florida's bee Lab

00:18:25.360 --> 00:18:27.840
Can you say who you worked with USDA?

00:18:27.840 --> 00:18:28.960
Yeah, I worked with Dr.

00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:29.919
Charles Stahl.

00:18:30.080 --> 00:18:31.679
And that was in my first year of research.

00:18:31.679 --> 00:18:36.320
He unfortunately retired, but he's truly been like so helpful in this process.

00:18:36.320 --> 00:18:38.480
And who did you work with in Florida?

00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:43.080
Yeah, I worked with a grad student, her name is Marie Yenschak, and I also worked with Dr.

00:18:43.080 --> 00:18:43.799
Jack, Dr.

00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:44.760
Cameron Jack.

00:18:44.760 --> 00:18:45.480
Great.

00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:46.600
I'm sitting here

00:18:46.760 --> 00:18:55.160
Part of my brain is listening to you and saying, Yeah, okay, that makes sense, that makes sense And then the other part of me is saying, At the time you were, you know, eighth, ninth, and tenth grade.

00:18:55.160 --> 00:19:03.720
That's pretty intensive science studies that you're doing and with the field trials and lab trials and determine the concentrations.

00:19:03.560 --> 00:19:11.240
What did your friends think as you said, No, I can't play ball tonight, I'm gotta go to the lab and check on my mites the mite drop

00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:13.740
At first they thought I was crazy doing all this stuff.

00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:15.340
They're like, dude, what are you doing?

00:19:15.340 --> 00:19:18.220
But now they and really supportive, like, I don't know.

00:19:18.220 --> 00:19:20.140
They're just really understanding about it as well.

00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:21.500
they're huge helps as well.

00:19:21.500 --> 00:19:25.980
I don't think I'd be able to do anything without the support of my friends and family either.

00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:34.120
Did you put a sticky board in when you is that the one of the main uses or main ways you actually measured the effect of the treatment?

00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:35.000
Yeah.

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.720
In my lab or my field trial, I mean, I mainly looked at the sugar shake method.

00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.000
So I would sugar shake these hives for treatment.

00:19:42.660 --> 00:19:52.500
and after treatment at a bunch of different intervals, which was three days after treatment and one to all the way to ten weeks after treatment, specifically for my third year of research.

00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:56.740
But something that I also developed was a version of the sticky trap

00:19:56.560 --> 00:20:04.880
It basically goes underneath of the hive and the beekeepers can use like their camera app and basically they can use an AI model I developed.

00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:06.800
It's called a YOLOv8 model

00:20:06.800 --> 00:20:15.600
And what this does is it counts the amount of raw mites on the sticky trap so that they have like a threshold for how well their hives are doing in terms of mite count.

00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:15.919
Okay.

00:20:15.919 --> 00:20:17.919
No, I'm I'm speechless about okay.

00:20:17.919 --> 00:20:20.159
So you developed an app, basically.

00:20:20.159 --> 00:20:23.760
Is this is this something that beekeepers couldn't download and use?

00:20:23.800 --> 00:20:25.880
I'm still in the process of publishing it.

00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:28.200
Like a AI itself is developed.

00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:33.480
I'm just trying to get to the point where I can make this available for beekeepers to use on the iOS app.

00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:37.000
But hopefully that will be available in the next month or so.

00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:43.920
That'll be a help to a number of people who in research who have to count those mites on the sticky boards.

00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:45.360
Yeah, it's really tedious.

00:20:45.360 --> 00:20:50.080
I remember in the field, like it took me so many hours just like standing there counting

00:20:50.040 --> 00:20:51.160
All these different mites.

00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:54.200
And they're so tiny too, so it's really hard to even see them.

00:20:54.520 --> 00:20:58.920
I think some people use a dissecting scope because you've got all those other particles too.

00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.080
So to just to pull out your

00:21:03.940 --> 00:21:06.100
You have the CO2 drop.

00:21:06.100 --> 00:21:12.740
What's the bell curve of the of the drop in the first day, the first three days, five days?

00:21:12.740 --> 00:21:16.419
How long is the effect of the CO2 treatment?

00:21:16.260 --> 00:21:24.179
Yeah, so the way the CO2 treatment works is it basically like disrupts the reproductive cycle of the mites as w as well.

00:21:24.179 --> 00:21:29.940
So something that I noticed is that most of the mite populations died off very quickly around

00:21:29.940 --> 00:21:31.220
one to three days.

00:21:31.220 --> 00:21:33.460
that's when most of their populations died.

00:21:33.460 --> 00:21:39.860
And they stayed very stagnant because these mites they reproduce roughly every four to six weeks.

00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:53.160
So like they didn't have enough time to fully reproduce and if these hives are treated every four weeks, then this is targeting these mites at the reproductive cycles, so the mite populations stay low over the long run.

00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:56.660
So but this wouldn't penetrate the cell cappings.

00:21:56.660 --> 00:21:59.700
So it would just be the mites that are actually on the bees?

00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:01.220
Yeah, it would be the phoretic mites.

00:22:01.460 --> 00:22:04.580
What did you come up with as far as a treatment regimen?

00:22:04.340 --> 00:22:07.460
in order to be most effective?

00:22:07.539 --> 00:22:08.100
Yeah.

00:22:08.100 --> 00:22:09.700
This would be done every four weeks.

00:22:09.700 --> 00:22:11.539
Its treatment cycle would be four weeks.

00:22:11.539 --> 00:22:18.020
So basically the way this would work is this lid it kind of is just placed on top of the beehives

00:22:17.600 --> 00:22:19.760
So these beekeepers, they can go hive to hive.

00:22:19.760 --> 00:22:22.320
They can have one treatment for their apiary.

00:22:22.320 --> 00:22:26.480
And really what they do is they just take off all the lids of their hives.

00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:28.880
They take a CO2 lid I developed.

00:22:28.660 --> 00:22:35.940
They go hive to hive just treating each of the hives, so starting the flow, stopping the flow, and they treat each hive for around one minute.

00:22:36.100 --> 00:22:42.740
The equipment has to maybe not have any breaks or holes in it in order to make sure that seal

00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:45.800
to stays in the hive as long as it can?

00:22:45.800 --> 00:22:47.000
Does that matter?

00:22:47.080 --> 00:22:53.640
yeah, so the lid it's very tight, so it fits sh like almost perfectly on top of the hive.

00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:56.680
I mean these hives themselves are very they have

00:22:57.019 --> 00:23:01.820
not too great ventilation in terms of how tight the hives are because of these bees.

00:23:01.820 --> 00:23:04.380
Like they seal off basically the entire hive.

00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:11.659
So once the CO2 is introduced and it covers the top, the CO2 stays inside of the hive until the it's taken off.

00:23:11.040 --> 00:23:12.800
You haven't seen my beehives.

00:23:12.800 --> 00:23:21.520
I've got I've got auger holes for entrances and exits and then there's some corners that don't match up anymore where the bees decided that's an entrance too.

00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:25.760
So But I understand.

00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:27.280
That's that's really that's very interesting.

00:23:27.280 --> 00:23:30.560
So you can treat multiple colonies very quickly.

00:23:30.560 --> 00:23:35.760
Is this being done by any organizations or beekeepers as a regular

00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:38.520
Mitigation for mites right now?

00:23:38.520 --> 00:23:40.440
Yes, that's actually my next step.

00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:45.560
This overall has just been like the research behind it to see if this could actually work.

00:23:45.080 --> 00:23:48.040
And the results indicate that this could be an effective tool.

00:23:48.040 --> 00:23:51.160
So the next step for me is to do like a pilot.

00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:57.160
So basically taking this to different beekeepers around the state and maybe more states.

00:23:56.860 --> 00:24:06.620
And starting there so seeing what their thoughts and feedback are on this specific prototype, if anything could be improved, and if so, how is this varying in their hives as well?

00:24:06.620 --> 00:24:09.419
So just to see if this isn't a temperature

00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:14.240
or just an Orlando thing and maybe if it's statewide or national thing as well.

00:24:14.320 --> 00:24:17.200
And you've developed this for a too deep colony, correct?

00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:21.679
I'd be curious, have you looked into or thought about triple Alapse at all?

00:24:21.540 --> 00:24:24.980
And controlling total Alapse with carbon dioxide?

00:24:25.300 --> 00:24:26.660
I'm really happy you asked that.

00:24:26.660 --> 00:24:28.900
So I was that's actually something I'm pretty sure.

00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:30.740
Yeah.

00:24:30.740 --> 00:24:33.780
So that's something I've been really interested in as well

00:24:33.600 --> 00:24:42.640
I don't know, people are saying that turbo Alapse could be a bigger issue than Varela themselves because they outcompete these varella in terms of like reproduction.

00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:44.600
So that's definitely something I'm interested in.

00:24:44.600 --> 00:24:49.559
The only issue is I don't know if the CO2 specifically would work for triple A laps.

00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:56.039
And the reason why is because the triple A laps they kind of act inside of the sealed wax chambers

00:24:55.800 --> 00:24:58.120
And the CO2 can't penetrate that barrier.

00:24:58.120 --> 00:25:03.160
Almost no treatment on the in the industry itself can actually, size for oxalic acid.

00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:06.360
So that's something I've been really looking into.

00:25:05.900 --> 00:25:09.100
And that's also another research project I'm exploring right now.

00:25:09.100 --> 00:25:10.540
So I'm really happy you asked that.

00:25:10.540 --> 00:25:12.780
That's something that I'm really interested in.

00:25:12.780 --> 00:25:16.620
They're out of those cells a lot less than Varroa, unfortunately.

00:25:16.700 --> 00:25:18.700
And I don't think you get any kind of

00:25:18.580 --> 00:25:25.140
Anybody give you approval to bring triple A laps in to test it, but it would be No, but that means you get to go to Thailand.

00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:27.940
Yeah, I was yeah, I was thinking about that as well.

00:25:28.620 --> 00:25:32.540
But it's interesting because they're they are they're smaller than feroas.

00:25:32.540 --> 00:25:36.860
So at least you know that the dose they could be more susceptible, yeah.

00:25:36.100 --> 00:25:45.460
Hey, let's take this opportunity for a quick break and we'll be right back and we'll talk to Aakash more about his research and what we can expect in the future.

00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:49.960
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00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:20.120
Welcome back everybody.

00:27:20.120 --> 00:27:21.320
I am curious.

00:27:21.320 --> 00:27:28.680
It sounds like with three years in and lots of data, this sounds like one, you could be publishing the work pretty soon

00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:32.820
And two, you should have just gotten a master's degree with all of this research.

00:27:32.820 --> 00:27:35.460
Is this being prepared for publication?

00:27:35.460 --> 00:27:41.220
So I definitely want to publish this work like the first and second year's work as well.

00:27:40.840 --> 00:27:42.679
and kind of just get this out there.

00:27:42.679 --> 00:27:52.600
Another big goal that I have in mind is patenting this work and releasing it for beekeepers to use as soon as they can and for as cheap as possible because

00:27:52.760 --> 00:27:56.760
Well like again, this is a huge issue that all these beekeepers are facing.

00:27:56.760 --> 00:28:01.080
They don't have like fantastic treatments for right now.

00:28:01.080 --> 00:28:05.240
So I think if this were to get out there as soon as possible, that could be a big help.

00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:07.780
Back to the use of the hive top.

00:28:07.780 --> 00:28:12.180
So you leave it on for one minute and it's a 30% concentration.

00:28:12.180 --> 00:28:15.940
How expensive is CO2 and where do you get that?

00:28:15.840 --> 00:28:17.360
And how big of a tank is that?

00:28:17.360 --> 00:28:19.919
Are we talking like scuba tanks full?

00:28:20.320 --> 00:28:22.160
You can go to a local welding shop.

00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:25.360
They sell this concentration inside of like gas tanks.

00:28:25.360 --> 00:28:30.559
So specifically, like I personally got a two inch pound tank of CO CO2.

00:28:30.360 --> 00:28:41.399
for his research and this 200 pound tank cost I think it was around two hundred dollars but this tank it contains enough treatment for around fifteen thousand five hundred treatments

00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:43.560
So it's really inexpensive.

00:28:43.560 --> 00:28:47.880
you can get it in huge bulk, or you can even get like a 20-pound tank.

00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:51.000
That's again, that's still enough for a few thousand treatments.

00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.960
So it's quite inexpensive for use.

00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:58.899
From the tank you run a tube to a regulator of some sort, or just a valve?

00:28:58.899 --> 00:29:03.220
So it's a regulator and its flow set at two liters per minute.

00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:07.100
So no more CO2 is leaving than that exact concentration.

00:29:07.100 --> 00:29:12.059
And then this tube it's connected to the lid and this lid is on top of the beehive.

00:29:12.059 --> 00:29:16.539
So once the flow is active, the CO2 sinks to the bottom of the hive.

00:29:16.220 --> 00:29:18.700
And then this tank you can move it around.

00:29:18.700 --> 00:29:22.060
So moving around 200 pound tank, it's not too easy.

00:29:22.060 --> 00:29:27.100
But if you were to use a 15-20 pound tank, they're quite a lot easier.

00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:30.779
The 30% is a common concentration that is available?

00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:35.980
Yeah, so the specific pudding shop I went to they did have the 30% concentration.

00:29:35.980 --> 00:29:41.500
I do think that it would vary according to which shop you go to though.

00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:44.400
What made you think of CO2 in this treatment study?

00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:48.480
Why did you choose CO2 over, say, another gas?

00:29:48.340 --> 00:29:57.059
Like the whole reason why CO2 was picked was because of this phenomenon that I mentioned earlier, known as hypercapnia.

00:29:56.500 --> 00:29:59.620
And this is the acidification of the ensectic blood.

00:29:59.620 --> 00:30:03.620
So CO2 is something that can trigger this acidification.

00:30:03.620 --> 00:30:09.140
So I really just thought that since these mites, they're so much smaller than the bees themselves.

00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:15.240
that what if they were to be exposed to CO2 at the exact same time, wouldn't these mites fall off the body of the bees?

00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:18.920
And also some more like inspiration for this project.

00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:23.920
I saw this paper and it actually looked at this CO2 checker that was developed.

00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:29.840
So basically like a method that was previously available to count the amount of rell mice inside of the hive

00:30:29.740 --> 00:30:31.900
was used via a CO2 checker.

00:30:31.900 --> 00:30:34.860
So like basically it's similar to the sugar shake method.

00:30:34.860 --> 00:30:38.540
A sample of around 300Bs is scooped up into a jar.

00:30:38.360 --> 00:30:43.480
but and CO2 injection is added to the top and this separates the bees from the mites.

00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:47.720
So I was curious why that happened and I came across hypercapnia.

00:30:47.179 --> 00:30:54.220
And I wondered if this could be scaled to the entire hive itself and if it could be used to treat for varroa as well.

00:30:54.380 --> 00:31:01.820
Have you done any studies where you make the colony broodless so that the varroa have no place to hide?

00:31:01.640 --> 00:31:02.440
I have not.

00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:02.760
No.

00:31:02.760 --> 00:31:04.840
That's something that I definitely want to look into as well.

00:31:04.840 --> 00:31:06.600
I think that could be really, really cool.

00:31:06.600 --> 00:31:07.480
Yeah, that would be interesting.

00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:15.720
Along the same lines I was thinking this would be a perfect treatment for during the broodless period for m most of North America in December, January timeframe

00:31:15.540 --> 00:31:18.340
when most queens have shut down production.

00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:29.380
Before anybody gets out their supplies and buys some CO2, you have to make sure we know what it would do to a cluster if it would be disruptive or

00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:32.260
or what that looks like to a tight winter cluster.

00:31:32.660 --> 00:31:42.260
Explain to us the process then of taking your project and what you developed and getting it into the International Science and Engineering Fair.

00:31:42.320 --> 00:31:46.560
I first entered the International Science and Engineering Fair in my ninth grade.

00:31:46.560 --> 00:31:50.320
So I participated in a regional state science fair.

00:31:50.320 --> 00:31:52.160
It's for Orange County where I live in.

00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:52.960
It's called the Dr.

00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:54.880
Nelson Ging Exposition

00:31:55.040 --> 00:32:03.760
Basically, when you're there, you present your research just like any ordinary science fair, but there's a total of four students who are selected

00:32:04.040 --> 00:32:08.760
to go to ISEF, the International Science Fair, from that fair every single year.

00:32:08.760 --> 00:32:10.840
And I was one of those four students.

00:32:10.840 --> 00:32:16.280
And then I advanced to the State Science Fair as well, the Florida State Science and Engineering Fair.

00:32:15.860 --> 00:32:20.260
And there another eight students are picked to go to the International Science and Engineering first.

00:32:20.260 --> 00:32:22.659
So I re-qualified from the state fair.

00:32:22.659 --> 00:32:26.500
And then at ISEF, that was my first experience there.

00:32:26.340 --> 00:32:34.020
and I presented my work to a bunch of different scientists, PhDs, I received a lot of help feedback.

00:32:34.020 --> 00:32:38.020
So after ninth grade, I re-entered in tenth grade

00:32:38.040 --> 00:32:46.840
And I entered from the regional science fair, I advanced to ISEF again, and then I presented my work, and that was really the process.

00:32:47.019 --> 00:32:47.740
Excellent.

00:32:47.740 --> 00:32:51.179
Where was the where were the International Science Fairs held?

00:32:51.179 --> 00:32:57.260
Yeah, so in my ninth grade year it was held in Columbus, Ohio, and this year it was in Arizona.

00:32:57.260 --> 00:33:01.179
Are they on college campuses to give you a taste of what's out there?

00:33:00.940 --> 00:33:07.340
No, they're so they're not like well they're sponsored by colleges but they weren't on the actual college campuses themselves.

00:33:07.340 --> 00:33:08.860
They were in like the convention centers.

00:33:09.419 --> 00:33:12.539
It's really cool though to see like just to see new cities

00:33:12.540 --> 00:33:14.140
So much different than Orlin.

00:33:14.140 --> 00:33:15.020
So it was awesome.

00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:17.180
Yeah, you picked a couple of very different ones.

00:33:20.540 --> 00:33:22.460
Do they provide for the travel?

00:33:22.460 --> 00:33:27.100
The regional science fair that I participate in, it's funded by this organization.

00:33:27.100 --> 00:33:30.060
It's called the Nelson Science Exposition.

00:33:29.860 --> 00:33:33.940
basically like it pay for our flights, our hotel, our lodging.

00:33:33.940 --> 00:33:35.860
it's really amazing.

00:33:36.019 --> 00:33:43.059
What is the prize or reward that you won for this competition?

00:33:43.120 --> 00:33:48.720
Yeah, so this year I was awarded first place in the category of animal sciences.

00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:52.640
And I was also awarded one of the top distinctions.

00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:56.400
It's called the Peggy Scripps Award for Science Communication

00:33:56.360 --> 00:34:01.240
So I'm really grateful to have been selected for that and it's just been an amazing opportunity.

00:34:01.399 --> 00:34:03.480
Do you receive a scholarship for that?

00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:08.359
For the first place in my category, I receive a six thousand dollar scholarship.

00:34:07.800 --> 00:34:12.040
And the Peggy Scripps Award covers another ten thousand scholarship for college.

00:34:12.200 --> 00:34:12.520
Excellent.

00:34:12.600 --> 00:34:13.080
Oh wow.

00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:14.280
Congratulations.

00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:15.720
That is so impressive.

00:34:15.720 --> 00:34:19.720
Okay, since you brought up college, do you know what you're going to be studying?

00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:25.639
Yeah, so I definitely want to continue doing like this agricultural environmental research.

00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:28.760
I'm hugely passionate about the work I've been able to do.

00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:32.039
I definitely 100% want to continue it.

00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:39.680
So I'm definitely thinking something on the lines of agriculture, environmental engineering, something on the lines of that

00:34:39.740 --> 00:34:42.060
Are you sticking with honey bees?

00:34:42.060 --> 00:34:42.780
Yes.

00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:46.300
So I def I definitely think I'm going Yeah.

00:34:46.300 --> 00:34:46.860
So I think

00:34:47.260 --> 00:34:55.580
I do think I'm gonna do it more or maybe expand a little from honey bees, but I definitely still wanna continue doing honey bees because I just love it.

00:34:55.580 --> 00:35:02.060
It's so far so If I remember correctly, your brother was not planning on sticking with honey bees.

00:35:02.099 --> 00:35:03.380
in college.

00:35:03.700 --> 00:35:09.140
No, it's not so thank you for sticking with honey.

00:35:09.140 --> 00:35:09.619
We appreciate it.

00:35:13.520 --> 00:35:21.920
personal interest in finding a treatment for the ver against the varroa might you have to tell us because I'm sure you're you're involved in other things too besides honey bees and research.

00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:24.800
What else do you are you doing there in Florida?

00:35:24.720 --> 00:35:28.400
So I recently started a band with three of my friends.

00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:29.680
So I play the guitar.

00:35:29.680 --> 00:35:30.720
So I'll be doing that.

00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:34.720
One of my friends is going to be doing the drums, another the piano.

00:35:34.200 --> 00:35:37.560
and then one of them's actually doing electric guitar.

00:35:37.560 --> 00:35:40.040
So that's gonna be like a huge, huge blast.

00:35:40.040 --> 00:35:41.640
I'm really excited about that.

00:35:41.640 --> 00:35:47.800
And then I'm also doing some research with NASA, specifically the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:48.839
So looking

00:35:48.740 --> 00:35:54.820
This is more of like the environmental research, but looking at like harmful algal blooms on the coast of Florida.

00:35:54.820 --> 00:35:56.740
And then some more research as well.

00:35:56.740 --> 00:36:00.420
So I'm looking into some veterans mental health research.

00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:03.460
that's something I'm passionate about as well.

00:36:02.660 --> 00:36:10.660
Because a lot of the beekeepers who I worked with they were former veterans and they were talking a lot about like how beekeeping helps them specifically

00:36:10.640 --> 00:36:13.200
with like post war symptoms.

00:36:13.200 --> 00:36:19.119
I really think that it's that beekeeping is just a helpful tool itself to help veterans as well.

00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:21.760
That's something that is really close to me.

00:36:21.460 --> 00:36:23.620
And I joined the Hives for Heroes.

00:36:23.620 --> 00:36:27.540
Basically, it's that nonprofit that connects veterans with beekeepers.

00:36:27.540 --> 00:36:32.820
So I think that it's a really cool mission and I'm excited to get more into that as well.

00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:36.620
Does he qualify for the Nobby Next Gen?

00:36:36.620 --> 00:36:37.180
Yeah.

00:36:37.180 --> 00:36:40.460
Do you know about the North American honey bee Expo?

00:36:40.460 --> 00:36:42.300
I don't think so now.

00:36:42.160 --> 00:36:48.240
They've got a an a next generation beekeeping group and there's an application.

00:36:48.240 --> 00:36:50.560
I don't know when those applications are due.

00:36:50.540 --> 00:36:53.500
But it would be really fun to see you at the next expo.

00:36:53.500 --> 00:36:57.900
It's in Louisville, Kentucky, which is very different than both Columbus and

00:36:58.240 --> 00:37:01.840
and the state of Arizona, you would be very well received there.

00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:06.400
And if you do get to the North American Honey Bee Expo, make sure you stop by our booth.

00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:07.680
We will be there.

00:37:07.640 --> 00:37:11.880
Aakash, it has been very enlightening talking to you and very rewarding.

00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:15.960
I'm really I feel really positive after talking to you about

00:37:16.220 --> 00:37:23.020
the future of the honey bees and people like you who are out there interested in the bees doing the research now in tenth grade.

00:37:23.020 --> 00:37:24.619
So that is fantastic.

00:37:24.660 --> 00:37:25.860
Kudos to you.

00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:26.420
Thank you.

00:37:26.420 --> 00:37:28.740
It's really been an honor to speak to both of you today.

00:37:28.740 --> 00:37:30.580
So thank you so much for having me.

00:37:30.580 --> 00:37:32.900
We so appreciate you visiting with us.

00:37:32.900 --> 00:37:36.340
Thank you.

00:37:36.340 --> 00:37:39.140
I am so impressed with Aakash and his

00:37:39.740 --> 00:37:44.540
brother, but just whether Aakash is doing and it's fantastic.

00:37:44.540 --> 00:37:45.420
It really is.

00:37:45.420 --> 00:37:48.300
It's just it's such a fun conversation.

00:37:48.220 --> 00:37:58.539
And I mean it's it's just nice that you can ask whatever you want because he totally knows what's going on and what's happening with the bees and the biology.

00:37:58.539 --> 00:38:00.059
I think he probably

00:38:00.059 --> 00:38:03.740
maybe was really careful with his answers so that we could understand.

00:38:04.700 --> 00:38:05.980
But it is.

00:38:05.980 --> 00:38:11.180
If when you're talking to a high school student and you're able to ask, you know, certain questions and

00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:18.119
Like there w there wasn't anything that we asked that he had any problem answering, which was I don't know, it's just impressive.

00:38:18.359 --> 00:38:20.680
I wanna say, before I forget, is that

00:38:21.059 --> 00:38:32.900
At the time of this recording, Makash had not finished the iOS app for counting mites on a sticky board, but maybe by the time this episode is released, that app will be out, and if it is

00:38:33.040 --> 00:38:37.440
I will have and make sure that there is a link for that app in the show notes.

00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:39.440
So check the show notes if you're interested.

00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:46.480
And we should actually, if it's not done, we should make sure he lets us know so that we can share it with everybody

00:38:46.720 --> 00:38:50.799
And that about wraps it up for this episode of Beekeeping Today.

00:38:50.799 --> 00:38:56.240
Before we go, be sure to follow us and leave us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts.

00:38:56.040 --> 00:38:58.360
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00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:03.400
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00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:09.560
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00:39:09.560 --> 00:39:10.520
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00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:14.720
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00:39:14.720 --> 00:39:24.000
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00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:25.680
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00:39:26.120 --> 00:39:27.960
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00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:32.360
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00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:33.720
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00:39:33.720 --> 00:39:35.400
Thanks again everybody